Benjamin Brown (0:10.858)
Welcome everybody to another episode of the dad verb podcast. I am one of your hosts, Ben. I'm joined by a mom or an Andrew Saunders. I feel like I say this all the time, but it's been a couple of weeks since we've done a podcast because you know, as we always say, we're dad's life gets in the way. run businesses and work. So we've got a lot going on. And one of our members in particular has the most going on Saunders. You welcomed a new baby into the world, right?
Andrew Saunders (0:39.741)
We did, we did. ⁓ was, ⁓ yeah. ⁓ I was, ⁓ we were supposed to record and I was like ⁓ really, really going for like, we need to get this kid out. ⁓ Like I want 30 minutes before I got to record and then I'm gonna show up on the podcast recording and be like, look, he's fresh. ⁓
Benjamin Brown (0:41.742)
Congratulations, golf clap so we don't blow the speakers out.
Benjamin Brown (0:55.264)
Ha ha ha.
Muamer (1:0.262)
⁓ Listen, it got to the point where we were telling Saunders to just stop and we will film next week. Like, you got a lot going on.
Benjamin Brown (1:0.802)
He's still slimy.
Benjamin Brown (1:8.546)
We're like, Hey man, you're, you're like in the hospital. You got a lot going on right now.
Andrew Saunders (1:11.103)
⁓ I asked permission from my wife. ⁓ She was like, go ahead. ⁓ And had ⁓ I known what I know now, I totally would have done it. ⁓
Muamer (1:17.350)
ahead.
Muamer (1:21.732)
My wife was there when you called me Saunders and like with the whole situation and ⁓ I told so for everyone listening Saunders called like we're talking through it and game planning. I'm like dude like just just focus ⁓ if it was me my wife would kill me so just like focus on what you're doing and after I hung up she was like yeah you're absolutely right like if you would have even just like said the word podcast it would have been over. ⁓
Benjamin Brown (1:36.920)
you
Benjamin Brown (1:40.982)
Yeah, I was watching the office when everybody walked in and I got I got some looks.
Andrew Saunders (1:41.855)
What about a fight? No! ⁓
Andrew Saunders (1:48.063)
That's funny. it now. were, ⁓ mean, so ⁓ we'll tell the whole story. We obviously got to do sick check and like start the episode properly. But what do call it? At like four in the morning, we were just having like this nonchalant chat with the OB ⁓ who's like our family doctor. Like he was awake, we were awake. Nobody could go home. Nobody could leave. We were just talking about like he had gotten a divorce and like just ⁓ BSing with this doctor who was like,
Muamer (2:9.029)
⁓ Hmph.
Andrew Saunders (2:18.111)
I got nothing better to do. Like, why not hang in here? Anyway, so ⁓ yeah, we'll get into it. I'm sure.
Muamer (2:20.965)
You
Andrew Saunders (2:27.944)
Ben did you mute yourself? Yeah. ⁓
Benjamin Brown (2:28.714)
⁓ sorry. Yeah, I muted myself. ⁓ I hit the space bar, which goes to like, you have to hold the space bar to unmute yourself. So I'm gonna have to hold this while we do our sick check. ⁓ But ⁓ as with every episode, we are going to go through and do our sick check. ⁓ I'll kick us off. We're sick. ⁓ So my son's had a cough for a while, my daughter has been fine. She's been a trooper. And then ⁓ she just developed like this cold kind of out of nowhere.
Andrew Saunders (2:35.743)
⁓ Yeah.
Benjamin Brown (2:57.450)
And that has developed into slight pneumonia. we are fully in the world of, yeah, we're fully in the world. She's doing okay. She's got her steroids and antibiotics and all that, but we are fully back in the world of using the nebulizer and, you know, doing antibiotics twice a day. it's, it's bringing back a lot of not fun memories of all the times my son had RSV, ⁓ even to the point where like, you know, they get that really pitiful, like kind of wheezy, creepy cough in the middle of the night.
Muamer (3:0.460)
⁓ no.
Muamer (3:10.437)
Mm.
Muamer (3:25.882)
Yeah.
Benjamin Brown (3:27.734)
And so I did the old, ⁓ I took her in the shower. So we have this like big, they call it the car wash. It was like this big shower in our house. And so there's a bench across the back of it. So with both of the kids, whenever they're sick, it's like, run humidifiers all the time. ⁓ but it makes it much easier when I can just, know, it's two o'clock in the morning, she can't sleep and she's coughing and going crazy and kicking around and stuff. I'll just take her in there and just sit and just let the steam roll over. and ⁓ it is. ⁓
Andrew Saunders (3:33.597)
Hahaha
Muamer (3:50.179)
Yep.
Benjamin Brown (3:57.442)
terrible ⁓ as you feel for them. It is kind of sweet because you're just sitting there with like your two year old asleep on your chest as the you shower runs and they get all the steam and they can actually like breathe and they're not coughing and wheezing and all that. So it's it's she's cuddly when she's sick. So it's it's not great to have to have them home because we also live in South Carolina where we've had an ice storm one week and then a massive for us a massive snowstorm.
the second week. So our kids have been out of school, like eight or nine of the last 14 days, something like that, like schools have been closed, we can't go anywhere. ⁓ But she's been she's been cuddly and sweet. But I think she's getting to the point where she's bored of being home. ⁓ She's like, she's like starting to get kind of mean about stuff like she ⁓ just likes to yell about that. Yeah, she's getting kind of mean about things. So she's ready to go back to school. ⁓
Muamer (4:34.307)
Cheers.
Andrew Saunders (4:35.103)
nice.
Muamer (4:43.170)
Yeah.
Andrew Saunders (4:46.621)
Hahaha
Muamer (4:48.003)
you get kind of mean.
Andrew Saunders (4:53.371)
I love how Ben's just sitting like if you watch the video, he's like, man, it's so sad. She's cuddly and she's sick and like the smiles just slowly creeping up on the corner of his mouth because he's like, she's cuddly and I love it, but she's sick and I can't I can't be happy about it. ⁓
Benjamin Brown (5:5.954)
Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, I'm not happy that she's sick. I am happy that she just, she literally just walks up to me. was in my office doing work earlier and she walked up to me just goes, daddy, will you come sit with me and watch a movie? It was like 100%. I will come sit with you and watch a movie. And she just cuddles in and watches princess and the frog and Aladdin and all that stuff. So we've been watching a lot of Disney, but I think ⁓ I'm
Muamer (5:20.291)
Aww.
Benjamin Brown (5:34.568)
not getting a lot of sleep so I can feel it. It's coming for me. I've had a two year old coughing directly into my mouth and eyes for the last five days. ⁓ So it's, ⁓ it's coming. It's coming. What about the rest of you guys? Everybody healthy? Mama? How about you? Yeah, I'm a we'll, we'll see. We'll see.
Andrew Saunders (5:45.663)
All right.
Muamer (5:47.085)
Yeah.
Andrew Saunders (5:48.617)
So Ben's not gonna be here next week. He's gonna be down for the count.
Muamer (5:50.892)
Yeah.
Listen, I'll just say we're sick too. ⁓ Both boys just run the gamut. They're just probably got some kind of cold right now. It's snotty, achy, just ⁓ uncomfortable. ⁓ And they are ⁓ taking this full advantage of it. My three-year-old who's turning four this weekend actually, ⁓ he is just running down with the snot and everything. And he'll wake up in the morning and say, mommy, daddy, I don't feel good. I just wanna watch TV. ⁓
Benjamin Brown (6:23.438)
⁓ What are you going to do? no. that's fine. It's fine. Everything's fine. ⁓
Muamer (6:23.489)
I mean, that's fine, you know? ⁓ Yeah. ⁓ He's ⁓ like, he's like, I'm sick. Yeah. So. But you Saunders. ⁓
Andrew Saunders (6:28.019)
You figured out the words. Yeah.
Andrew Saunders (6:33.119)
⁓ I mean, in the last two weeks, I've spent more time in the hospital than anybody else, but we are not sick. ⁓ We actually, so last week, we were at the hospital every day in one way, or form. ⁓ And so that was, yeah, that was a fun ⁓ week, nope, not sick. None of the kids are sick. Wife's not sick. I'm not sick. We're good. So.
Muamer (6:44.918)
Jeez.
Benjamin Brown (6:46.061)
⁓
Benjamin Brown (6:56.910)
⁓ So we're, one out of three right now for ⁓ sickness. Not, not so great.
Muamer (6:57.760)
There you go.
Muamer (7:1.522)
One out of three.
Andrew Saunders (7:1.619)
Yeah. And Nate's down with plumbing issues, ⁓ so his house is sick. ⁓
Benjamin Brown (7:7.906)
Yeah. Nate's house is sick. We got some pictures in our, we have a little ⁓ text thread that goes where we talk about episodes and record times and all that stuff. And we got a picture earlier that said, Hey, it's really important to know which valve to shut off in your house to turn off the water when you want to replace some of your plumbing. And it was a photo of what looked, I can only assume is water shooting out of a wall from what looked like ⁓ like shower plumbing.
Muamer (7:27.263)
Yep.
Muamer (7:35.043)
⁓ it's a video. I clicked on it. It's a video.
Andrew Saunders (7:36.585)
I think it was where ⁓ the tub screws in or something. But yeah, ⁓ it was just like, ⁓ that's fun.
Muamer (7:42.306)
Uhhh...
Muamer (7:46.880)
Yeah, for those ⁓ on watching the video, you can just see everything gushing out. ⁓
Andrew Saunders (7:51.356)
Yeah.
Benjamin Brown (7:52.847)
We are proud graduates of YouTube University when it comes to plumbing, I think. All right, so let's get into the episode. So as we mentioned at the top, Saunders just welcomed a new little one to his world. So it sounds like baby's doing good, mom's doing good, but we've got some birth story out there.
Andrew Saunders (7:56.490)
Yeah. ⁓ Anyway.
Andrew Saunders (8:7.583)
Nope. ⁓
Andrew Saunders (8:12.457)
Baby's doing good. Yeah, baby's doing good. Mom's doing good. ⁓ My first son, my first and only son. ⁓ So ⁓ there'll be a vasectomy episode coming up here in the next ⁓ less than six months, I believe. ⁓ We'll see what the urologist says. ⁓ But if I roll back the clock ⁓ on Monday last week, so what would that have been, the 28th? ⁓
Muamer (8:26.425)
You
Andrew Saunders (8:42.131)
There's ⁓ a 27th. ⁓ We ended up in the hospital because my wife was having preterm contractions again. It was the second time that it happened. ⁓ We kind of just hung out overnight. ⁓ No labor, no water break, nothing, just painful contractions. They wanted to keep an eye on her. They did. They let her go home. ⁓ She shows up.
Tuesday for ⁓ Some kind no that was Monday to Monday night Tuesday. We went home Wednesday she had her standard OB appointment, which ⁓ we just had because you have your weekly OB appointments when it gets to be later and then Thursday we went in for ⁓ an ECV and I call them an inversion, but that's not what they are. They're an external cephalic version ⁓ and the gist of this is they flip
Breach baby inside the womb which if you've never seen one look it up on YouTube They're really cool if they go, right? ⁓ And that's kind of where the beginning of this story goes because they spent the last like the first part of the week Telling my wife she needed an epidural and then when she said I'm not getting an epidural I've done this before because we did it with our second child ⁓
Benjamin Brown (9:59.694)
Mm.
Andrew Saunders (10:9.694)
And then they were like, okay, well, how about pain meds? And she's like, I don't need pain meds either. ⁓ And to put this in perspective for you, when we were at the University of Utah, they made a two o'clock in the afternoon, 30 minute appointment to do this at the University of Utah. They showed up with an attending, a med student, a resident and two nurses ⁓ in a room that didn't hold seven people. ⁓
I was the only one in the chair and I was sitting in the corner in the chair, ⁓ like peeking around the corner of a nurse. They did it. And the nurse goes, I've never seen it go that fast. Right? No anesthesia, no nothing. They just lubed her up with ⁓ ultrasound jelly and they rotated my daughter. She was born 24 hours later. ⁓ So here we are in rural Iowa and they're going, you have to have an epidural.
Muamer (10:37.536)
⁓ you
Muamer (10:47.135)
Hmph.
Andrew Saunders (11:3.444)
you're going to need pain meds. Like this is a process we have to love it. And we're going, no, no, we've done this before. This isn't an issue. Like let's, let's stop talking about it and just do it. Like we can do this in a regular clinic checkup room. And they're like, no, no, no, you have to go down to the OB wing and sit in the labor and delivery room. And ⁓ so they're like, from our perspective, they're just blowing it out of proportion, right?
Benjamin Brown (11:4.046)
Mm-hmm.
Muamer (11:25.791)
Mm.
Andrew Saunders (11:29.184)
three anesthesiologists.
⁓ an MD OBGYN, a DO family practice ⁓ obstetrician, five nurses and myself, ⁓ all in my wife's slavery and delivery room, along with my wife. I think we counted like 10 total people. ⁓ And they go over it all again and she's like, nope, I don't want an epidural. I don't need any pain meds. this, her name is Dr. Wong. She was just a five foot two. ⁓
Muamer (11:54.143)
Thank ⁓
Andrew Saunders (12:3.167)
40 year old Asian woman who was the only one in the hospital certified to do this procedure. ⁓ She lowers the bed as far as she can and then she's like, I need a stool because she couldn't get up high enough to actually do the procedure. And it was like, okay. So ⁓ they finally get her up on this stool and ROB is ⁓ there who's actually the one who's gonna deliver the baby, which was really nice for Iowa. ⁓ ROB obstetrician family doctor.
Benjamin Brown (12:14.627)
Hahaha. ⁓
Andrew Saunders (12:33.723)
is there for the whole thing. Like he was like, no, when you're ready to deliver and you go into labor, they're going to call me and I'm going to come in and I'm going to sit here with you. And so that was really nice because that was not our experience in Utah. It wasn't my sister's experience in Texas. ⁓
Benjamin Brown (12:34.541)
Mm-hmm. wow.
Benjamin Brown (12:47.759)
No, a larger hospital, you get whoever's on call. It's like you might get your OB. They try to get it,
Muamer (12:48.032)
⁓ Well, they say for ours they'll call them in and then if they're available they'll come in if they're not I think ours for our last son ⁓ When did he come in the first one we got whoever was on staff? Second son it was they called him and he was like, you know I'll be there soon and he rolls in and like shorts and flip-flops from like a backyard barbecue so
Andrew Saunders (12:50.440)
Yeah, yeah.
Andrew Saunders (13:13.405)
Yeah. So that was kind of nice that like he was there for the journey, right? ⁓ so we start the version ⁓ and ⁓ they do it. Same thing as Utah, 30 seconds in and out, push, bam, done. ⁓ And this Dr. Want, thing out of her mouth was, wow, that was easy. And I just turned to when I said, no, no, if that's easy, you're doing this wrong.
That's the expectation. That's how this is supposed to go. That is how this procedure works. And she just looks at me like I'm the devil, right? And I think everybody else in the room was like really, really quiet because a patient just corrected the person who was certified to do this and be like, I've gone through this before. Nah, it'll be fine. Yeah. But she didn't come back in the room.
Muamer (14:0.585)
Saunders isn't welcome back to this hospital anymore.
Benjamin Brown (14:3.865)
Okay, you're not welcome back here, ⁓
Andrew Saunders (14:8.448)
She left and that was it. She didn't come back in. And that's important later because she's the head of the obstetrics in this hospital. Anyway, so then we have to sit around for a couple hours because just for safety purposes, right? They just flipped the baby. We don't want the water to break. They're monitoring my wife's blood pressure and they decide she has prenatal hypertension. 150 over 90.
So she's like borderline on the, ⁓ have hypertension, you don't. ⁓ After a few hours of decisions made that we're gonna induce labor just because for safety of her, for safety of the child, right? We're at 37 weeks in like a day, so there's no risk in preterm birth really. ⁓ So we start that rabbit hole. That was like 11 ⁓ noon on Thursday, okay?
And this is why I'm going, we need to get this kid out because I got an 8 p.m. podcast time. Like we got hours. I can achieve this. Right. ⁓ And I had that goal. So. We start all the procedures again, our doctors there the whole time.
Benjamin Brown (15:11.823)
You
Benjamin Brown (15:21.495)
I'm going to I'm going to be honest. I'm surprised you didn't show up with a black eye.
Andrew Saunders (15:25.216)
⁓ By who? My wife? The doctor? Like, ⁓ she was all for it. She was all for it. Yeah, yeah. ⁓ So, hey, the way I look at this is I'm the only one in there advocating for my kid and my wife. Everybody else has got some agenda that they want to accomplish. And they all say different things, but...
Muamer (15:32.293)
Yes, at this point we've got a running list of people. ⁓
Andrew Saunders (15:52.161)
⁓ You gotta protect yours. If you don't, nobody else will, right? ⁓ So that's my job as the dad in the obstetrics room. By eight or nine o'clock at night, ⁓ we have basically been there just over 12 hours ⁓ and there is little to no movement. We've tried to break the water once, it didn't succeed. We've done a couple of the, they have this pill that they kind of rub on the outside of the cervix to help with dilation. ⁓
So somewhere after nine or 10, we've stopped at six centimeters. We are not dilating. And I believe at that point, we have manually broken my wife's water. And that's all fine. At some point, we'd, yeah. Yeah, we did that twice. It was really, that was actually the freakiest part was, cause he thought he got it. And then it turns out he didn't. And that was just, it was like,
Muamer (16:39.269)
They bring the hook out. Yeah. Things gnarly.
Andrew Saunders (16:51.836)
Hmm. I don't know if I like this whole thing, but.
Muamer (16:54.417)
Listen, I didn't get squeamish for like any of the parts of the birth that I was around for, even epidural, like nothing. But my wife woke me up from a nap, because it was the same thing they were inducing her. She woke me up from a nap and said, hey, they're about to break my water. And I just wake up to like Captain Hook over there and then water breaking. And I'm like, I'm about to hurl. Like, I'm like, this is no, ⁓ I pulled it together, but that was the only thing that I was like, I don't feel good right now.
Benjamin Brown (17:13.167)
⁓ You
Andrew Saunders (17:14.944)
⁓ No. ⁓
Benjamin Brown (17:16.887)
The only thing to catch you.
Andrew Saunders (17:22.526)
Yeah, ⁓ I had one of those moments in this story. ⁓ And so they did that. And somewhere in the process, I think it was ⁓ after they broke her water.
Benjamin Brown (17:23.425)
Yeah.
Andrew Saunders (17:36.715)
It was after she got pitocin, but before they broke her water, they did the epidural. ⁓ And God bless my wife because she let the student anesthesiologist give her the epidural. ⁓ And it took ⁓ four doses, five different, ⁓ they called them bee stings, but ⁓ of the local anesthetic because he couldn't get that right. And then he must've stabbed her four or five times trying to get the epidural in the right spot. Like she...
Muamer (18:4.028)
⁓ After time one, I just be like, we're done. Yep. Have you seen that epidural? Have you seen that epidural needle? No, one and done. That's it.
Benjamin Brown (18:6.551)
Yeah, you get one shot.
Andrew Saunders (18:6.728)
what ⁓ she was a trooper ⁓ i have i have i sat there and i
Benjamin Brown (18:14.143)
Yeah, that was the thing they got me was the up seeing the epidural needle I was like, Nope, I can't. I was like, I've spent hours and hours and hours under tattoo needles. And I soon as I saw an epidural needle, I was like, Nope, Nope, I can't, can't, can't even look at this can't watch it. Can't do any of it.
Muamer (18:18.224)
The thing's insane.
Andrew Saunders (18:27.239)
I'm out.
Andrew Saunders (18:31.168)
⁓ So that was frustrating for her and me, but it was really like one of those, ⁓ again, ⁓ we both have the mindset of these doctors have to learn. And so if there isn't anything else, any reason they can't, right? Why not? Like in that sense, we are very good patients. ⁓ we will be guinea pigs, but at some point,
Muamer (18:53.505)
You guys are brave souls.
Andrew Saunders (18:59.094)
You got to stop poking me just to practice. ⁓
Muamer (19:1.551)
mean, listen, I think we've already established Saunders' wife is like one of the most patient and kind human beings in the world by the fact that she was okay with him potentially doing a podcast in the middle of a hospital during like labor. ⁓
Andrew Saunders (19:14.528)
⁓ Fair. That's a good... Look, we had a discussion. I got permission. I didn't actually do it. ⁓ So all of this goes through at some point in the middle of the night there... ⁓ and the anesthesiologist ⁓ poked her spine and crashed her BP and the baby's BP. So she had to get a shot of epinephrine to like stabilize everything. Yeah, ⁓ in the middle of that epidural thing, they're like, we need to take a break. ⁓
Muamer (19:19.538)
You ⁓
Benjamin Brown (19:35.172)
blah.
Andrew Saunders (19:43.186)
heart rate and blood pressure just crashed. ⁓ So that was fun as a dad. Yeah, no, ⁓ there's a reason I said I could do a whole episode on this story because it was semi traumatic for me. Okay, I had a moment. ⁓
We get through that. At some point, they stop the pitocin just so that she and the baby can have a break. ⁓ And that was somewhere around midnight, one in the morning. And by six o'clock, we're back having the conversation about, ⁓ we want to start the pitocin. We can't really go much longer without this child being born, right? We broke ⁓ the water a while ago. Like, you're in active labor, but you're not progressing. ⁓ So we need to restart pitocin to move things along. However,
We're not comfortable doing it in a labor and delivery room, and we need to have the conversation about a C-section. And my wife is ⁓ pretty adamant like we're not doing a C-section. Like she does not want one. It is the last resort kind of response. So we do what this hospital referred to as a double setup. We had the entire surgical staff ⁓ on hand. We rolled my wife down to the OR, and we delivered
Benjamin Brown (20:36.366)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Saunders (20:59.708)
in the operating room. So we had the whole lights, ⁓ camera action operating room, plus all the labor and delivery staff. ⁓ were two nurses for the baby. I'm sorry, there was a DO for the baby, ⁓ two nurses for the baby, ⁓ three nurses for my wife and her DO who's our primary care physician. ⁓ And they lit her up on Pitocin ⁓ and ⁓ she dilated.
one centimeter about every 30 minutes. We spent about 90 minutes in the E in the O R just waiting ⁓ and ⁓ she managed to do a vaginal delivery of this child in an operating room surrounded by at my, my highest count was nine people at one point, one person would leave and two people would enter like, and I was like, no, we can't keep doing this. We're like, ⁓ you go out and two more people come back. ⁓ but
Benjamin Brown (21:49.465)
Thank ⁓
Andrew Saunders (21:54.817)
But what was really weird was outside the doors was the entire surgical staff. Like the OB staff was there doing delivery, but they were ready to like, nope, we're crashing, let's go. So we did the whole thing, right? And son is born 7 42 a.m. on Friday in the OR, vaginal delivery, no complications. He comes out crying, he's perfectly healthy and pink.
His APGOR scores are nine and nine, right? Like, with the exception of this really long labor ⁓ and the really bad epidural, everything else went beautifully swimmingly and as best you can, right? So he's born, he's fine, the nurse is doing her check, everybody's starting to clear out, and I just take like three steps back and I sit down.
on a chair that I don't even know why it was there. I don't think it was for me. And I lost it. I didn't even realize like how tense or how emotional or how much ⁓ shit ⁓ I was carrying at that moment. But I started bawling my eyes out in this OR. And it probably lasted about five minutes. And I swear to God, not a single person in that OR noticed. Not the nurse who was right next to me.
Benjamin Brown (22:58.670)
Mm-hmm.
Benjamin Brown (23:3.449)
Yeah.
Muamer (23:14.906)
⁓ And that's wild. ⁓
Andrew Saunders (23:17.708)
not my DO who was delivering the kid. My wife wasn't aware, right? She was obviously occupied, ⁓ but there must've been seven, eight people within 15 feet of me. And I am sitting there breathing and crying ⁓ and right. mean, I just had a pent up emotions, right? Fear, anxiety. Like there was a point where my brain was going, what happens if this goes horribly wrong? And I'm left as a single dad of three kids with an infant because ⁓ God knows what happened, right?
Benjamin Brown (23:36.526)
Yeah.
Muamer (23:44.746)
Right.
Benjamin Brown (23:45.432)
Yeah.
Andrew Saunders (23:47.316)
And so I was just, it was all coming out in like that five minutes. ⁓ and so it did. And then we got up and we rolled all the way back to labor and delivery ⁓ and we didn't see our DO for another 12 hours cause he left to go do a full day's clinic shift ⁓ in the family practice clinic. ⁓ And then he went home and took an 11 hour nap. And I think he showed up on Saturday at like ⁓ just before noon.
Benjamin Brown (23:50.349)
Mm-hmm.
Benjamin Brown (24:7.465)
wow.
Andrew Saunders (24:16.929)
They were like, you went home and slept, didn't you? ⁓ He's got a screaming kid.
Muamer (24:17.539)
Hey, ⁓ gotta, ⁓ again, this is dad verb, this is real life. I got a screaming, throwing up kid from being sick. Have a good night, gentlemen. ⁓
Benjamin Brown (24:24.281)
to.
All right, see you tomorrow.
Andrew Saunders (24:27.553)
Bye, mom. Yeah, so that was my, that was my experience. And he told us at 1130, 1140, that next day that he's like, I was pretty sure we were doing a C-section. And he's like, it was absolutely amazing that you powered through and delivered that kid the way you did. it was just, it was a lot, even thinking about it now, like,
I start the story in a very joking manner, but it was a long, long day. And then, oh, this part just irks me to no end. We've been there, I've been awake at that point for maybe 45 minutes of sleep a couple times during this whole thing, but I'd been awake for at least two and a half days at that point, just making sure I was conscious and available. And when a nurse came to take my son, it was like 9 p.m.
Benjamin Brown (25:15.022)
Hmm.
Benjamin Brown (25:20.004)
Yeah.
Andrew Saunders (25:24.789)
She's like, what do you want me to do? And I'm like, you can have him from 10 PM till 6 AM. Let us know if he needs fed or you need something from us, but we're getting some sleep. And my wife goes, that sounds like a plan. And the nurse looked at me like I was the devil because I had just pawned off a less than 24 hour old kid on her. And I was like, no, ⁓ this is my third kid. He's going to be fine. It's your job to take care of him. We need, we need a break. ⁓ Right. And yeah. ⁓
Benjamin Brown (25:32.143)
you
Benjamin Brown (25:42.541)
Yeah.
Benjamin Brown (25:50.489)
Yeah, yeah, you need some sleep at that point, some reset time.
Andrew Saunders (25:55.295)
Yep, exactly. ⁓ anyway, sorry.
Benjamin Brown (25:57.325)
Yeah. that's, that's one of the things, no, it's, it's, I mean, it's, it's a lot. I think, ⁓ you know, I think a lot of us have ⁓ similar or, or, you know, you talk about the emotional part of it and a lot of us have, you end up having ⁓ similar reactions, right? Like, so, you know, I shared ⁓ way back on the podcast, we had our first son in 2020 that he was born via emergency C-section.
Cause same thing, like my wife's blood pressure started crashing. His heartbeat was, his heart rate was crashing. ⁓ Same deal. was sitting there watching the office and everything was fine. And all of sudden it was like one person, two people, five people, seven people. And they're checking her doing all this stuff. ⁓ And you talk about that sort of, I actually almost got left. They wheeled her in so quickly. I almost got left in the waiting area.
⁓ So they were about to open her up to do the c-section and they realized I wasn't in the room and somebody finally ran out to come get me ⁓ But I do I remember that very vividly to this day like that the emotional crash at the end of it of Going through something that you don't at the time it feels ⁓ Very ⁓ matter-of-fact right like everybody's just everybody's doing their job
Andrew Saunders (26:56.906)
Wow.
Andrew Saunders (27:4.214)
Yeah.
Benjamin Brown (27:15.929)
They're kind of, they have a place to be, they have a thing to do, and sort of you kind of get caught up in ⁓ the rhythm and the cadence of the delivery of just watching everybody do their thing. And your focus is obviously on mom, right? Like making sure she's okay and doing whatever you can to keep her, ⁓ to help stay steady and kind of keep things the way they are. But I do remember that once the first...
once my son came out, I remember as soon as I heard that first cry is when I just like broke down. That was, cause it's that moment you're like, okay, everything's ⁓ at least for the most part, I know it's pretty much done. It's okay. He's out safe from a relatively scary situation. ⁓ And I know, you know, one of the pieces that, ⁓
Momma did recently on the dad verb channel and on his Instagram ⁓ was talking about the ⁓ assessments for dads, right? Like postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety. ⁓ And the thing that I think strikes me about what you said, and it was a similar experience for me, was you're having this huge emotional sort of release ⁓ and ⁓ nobody sees it. Right? Like nobody notices it.
Andrew Saunders (28:38.593)
⁓ Yeah, it's not that they don't see it, right? ⁓ I think, I think I could be wrong, but I think a couple of the nurses ⁓ noticed, because we kind of made eye contact, but ⁓ their priorities ⁓ were either elsewhere, or they just went with man up, bro. ⁓ and ⁓ like, right.
Benjamin Brown (28:49.775)
Mm-hmm.
Benjamin Brown (28:54.999)
Right. Right.
Yeah, ⁓ you're not you're not dying at that point. Like you're it's the focus is on baby mom getting everything squared away. Yeah.
Andrew Saunders (29:4.863)
Yep. Yep. And so was just, it was like, this is interesting. So I mean, I think like, ⁓ if we can do anything to affect the community, right? Having a singular person who's there to support fathers in those situations, like, look, there were so many people in that OR and they all had a job. There's absolutely no reason that we couldn't just add one more who's
Benjamin Brown (29:16.719)
Mm-hmm.
Benjamin Brown (29:22.831)
⁓ Mm-hmm.
Benjamin Brown (29:27.748)
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
Andrew Saunders (29:33.142)
job it is to make sure dad's okay, right? ⁓ I don't see ⁓ why that. And sure, some people are gonna be like man up and just, ⁓ but you know what? ⁓ I get it. I get why 13 % of the adult male population who have kids have postpartum discretion, right? ⁓ I understand it now because ⁓ the only other time I have felt that kind of crash, like that kind of straight emotional,
Benjamin Brown (29:52.548)
Mm-hmm.
Benjamin Brown (30:0.622)
Mm.
Andrew Saunders (30:2.901)
weird release ⁓ is ⁓ when I was in the military, right? When I was in situations that were tense, ⁓ life-threatening, potentially dangerous to myself or others. And then when they were over, ⁓ everybody kind of took this giant collective sigh of relief. But in those situations, ⁓ everybody was in the same...
Benjamin Brown (30:7.448)
Mm-hmm.
Benjamin Brown (30:19.289)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Saunders (30:29.735)
event, right? No one was responsible for taking care of anybody else. We were all like, ⁓ on the high together and on the crash together. Right? And then when we got wherever we could that people could support us, their whole job was to support everyone. It wasn't to support one person and not somebody. So it was very interesting to for me to see it. It was the same emotional experience, but there was no one there to support me. And
Benjamin Brown (30:30.125)
Right, right, right.
Benjamin Brown (30:37.183)
Right. Right.
Benjamin Brown (30:44.655)
Mm.
Benjamin Brown (30:57.326)
Yeah.
Andrew Saunders (30:58.337)
⁓ And it really was. It was a man up, pull up your bootstraps, let's go. Right. And I think some people, even in my family, will be surprised to hear about it when they listen to this episode. They'll be like, I didn't know.
Benjamin Brown (31:2.317)
Yeah.
Benjamin Brown (31:8.643)
Yeah. Well, and that's one thing that we don't talk a lot about is because, obviously we're not the focus and we don't intend to be the focus. We don't intend to be the center of attention. But like birth trauma ⁓ in ⁓ dads is a very real thing. And I didn't I for me. ⁓ I didn't realize ⁓ how. ⁓
big of a deal it was until we went to have our second kid. And it was a scheduled c-section. It was very like a matter of fact, as I've talked about this before, right, it was kind of like checking into a hotel. Like you just show up and you're like, we're here to have a baby. Like you're not an active labor. There's no rush. You're just sitting in a room. Right, right. It's literally you're just sitting in a room until they're like, okay, it's time to go have your c-section and you go. But I remember there's this this moment.
Andrew Saunders (31:52.065)
⁓ And I'd like fries with that order, please. Yeah, yeah.
Benjamin Brown (32:4.769)
where I ended up in, ⁓ I don't know if it was the same OR, I think it was probably the same OR that my son had been born in. And I remember sitting down in the same waiting area and I sat there ⁓ and it was the same situation. Like it wasn't an emergency, but I was sitting there in basically the same situation, same outfit. ⁓ And I remember like I couldn't stop moving.
Like my, my feet were tapping, my legs were moving. couldn't, I had to fidget, I had to move and I check I had my Apple watch on. was like warning me that like my, my heart rate was too high or my breathing rate was too high. And I realized like in that moment, how much ⁓ of that trauma you carry from ⁓ one experience to another. ⁓ even, yeah, even, even before man, my wife noticed like the couple days out from.
Andrew Saunders (32:32.139)
Yeah, you just had to fidget.
Andrew Saunders (32:52.843)
the anxiety, the adrenaline, it's all just going.
Benjamin Brown (32:59.769)
you know, having our second kid for our scheduled C-section, was like, I was anxious and moody and kind of snapping at everybody. And I just didn't really want to talk to anyone. And she was like, I don't think you've really like taken in or accounted for like the amount of emotional stress that you were under for the first one. And it's all coming back in the second one. So completely understand, but it's something we don't talk about. ⁓ Yeah.
Andrew Saunders (33:23.169)
⁓ or even worse, because it's the fear. It's the fear that you already know what you're going to go through, right? And that's even worse. ⁓ Because ⁓ like, as a new dad, right, I was excited, but I had no idea what I was in for. I was excited, and I'd read lots of books and I'd participated in, right? Like I had an intellectual understanding, but not an emotional understanding. And then for number... Right. ⁓ And...
Benjamin Brown (33:30.391)
Right. Yeah. ⁓
Benjamin Brown (33:47.907)
Right. There's no attachment to it at that point.
Andrew Saunders (33:53.345)
And that one went ⁓ normal. Like that was straight up. ⁓ Everything went basically by the book ⁓ and. ⁓
Benjamin Brown (33:56.109)
Mm-hmm.
Benjamin Brown (34:1.038)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Saunders (34:5.248)
And that, ⁓ like, I remember like cutting the umbilical cord, right? ⁓ It took me a couple tries to ⁓ understand how like tough, like how actually tough the umbilical cord is. ⁓ Like everybody talks about the umbilical cord ⁓ rips or the, like this thing's a piece of rope, okay? Like it really has tensile strength. Yeah. And so.
Benjamin Brown (34:10.340)
Mm.
Benjamin Brown (34:18.031)
⁓ Yeah. Yeah. ⁓
Benjamin Brown (34:26.925)
Yeah, it's really, it's genuinely hard to cut through. Yeah.
Andrew Saunders (34:33.888)
with number two, right? And I didn't want to look at the head coming through, right? I didn't want to see the hair. Like ⁓ I was very much afraid with number one, or with my eldest ⁓ of kind of the blood, guts, gore portion of childbirth. And then with number two, they're like, you want to see the hair in her head? And I'm like, yeah, I do. Let's get in there. Let's right. Cause I, ⁓ I had an understanding of what was there, right? And I, and I could get through the emotions faster and
Benjamin Brown (34:39.588)
Yeah.
Benjamin Brown (34:49.687)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Benjamin Brown (34:56.429)
Yeah ⁓
Benjamin Brown (35:0.900)
Yeah.
Andrew Saunders (35:3.970)
That umbilical cord was one and done, right? And okay, I know what I'm getting into. I knew the strength I had to put on these scissors, right? I gotta get in there deep and make sure I get the cutting portion. And then here I am again in a new hospital, new team, right? I kinda trusted everybody, but I kinda didn't trust everybody in a lot of ways, right? Cause we went from major, you know, tier five ER hospital to...
Benjamin Brown (35:6.799)
⁓ Hmm, knew what you were doing.
Yeah. ⁓
Andrew Saunders (35:34.147)
not even registered ER emergency team, right? Just bare bones. And I'm sitting in an OR, right? And I've been in an OR twice in my life. The first one was to have tubes put in my ears and the second time was to have my gallbladder out, right? And I was unconscious for both of those instances. So I'd never actually looked around an OR to see what was there.
Benjamin Brown (35:39.181)
Mm-mm. Yeah. Rural hospitals, man.
Benjamin Brown (35:58.799)
⁓ Thank ⁓
Yeah.
Andrew Saunders (36:2.806)
how freaky it was and the fact that the 1-800-poison control numbers on a giant thing on the wall. And they're like, no, it's practical. We need to know that number. And I'm like, you can't remember 800-222-2111. ⁓ They're like, it's this ridiculously simple number. And they're like, no, we want it on the wall. And I'm like, ⁓ okay. And then they go, he hands me the scissors to cut the umbilical cord after he's out. And I dropped them. My hands were so... ⁓
Benjamin Brown (36:9.241)
Mm-hmm.
Benjamin Brown (36:18.180)
Yeah.
Benjamin Brown (36:29.006)
Mm-hmm.
Benjamin Brown (36:32.675)
Yeah. The adrenaline and yeah.
Andrew Saunders (36:32.690)
shaky and so yeah I was so ⁓ like on the outside I think I had it together but when I went to go do a dexterous thing I dropped him and he's like no big deal here's I I didn't I had to actively think about grabbing those scissors making sure they were in my hand and right I still once I understood that
Benjamin Brown (36:43.971)
Yeah, you have no fine motor skills. No. Yeah.
Andrew Saunders (36:55.306)
I won and done the umbilical cord this time. And he actually caught me. like, you know, not many guys get that on a single cut. And I'm like, yeah, it's my first rodeo. Right? Like I had some of my snark still in there, but, but it was, it really was, but it, ⁓ was amazing how much of just my, my ability to process had, had shut down so that I could ⁓ make sure I was in active. I want, I don't want to call it fight or flight, but emergency response mode. Right.
Benjamin Brown (37:6.286)
⁓ It's a defense mechanism.
Benjamin Brown (37:16.121)
Mm-hmm.
Benjamin Brown (37:25.059)
Yeah. Well, your, your mindset goes to ⁓ solving a problem, right? It's, it's the, it's the response to ⁓ a, ⁓ you know, a traumatic situation or a situation where you have an adrenaline dump, where you have to consciously think through all the steps and go, okay, what do I do next? And what do I do next? And, know, again, my wife's an ICU nurse. So
Andrew Saunders (37:25.282)
⁓
Benjamin Brown (37:49.069)
the stuff she talks about, she's like, yeah, we do that all the time. It's like, you just have to focus. It's like everybody in that room, they focus on their job because they don't want to see or do the wrong thing or whatever, you know, be in the wrong place because they're even in ⁓ seasoned, ⁓ OB situations, right? There's still a lot of adrenaline. There's still people moving. There's still, ⁓ a lot obviously tied to that experience and everything that they're doing. It has to be well coordinated.
⁓ but yeah, it's, it's that same deal. It's like, you really have to think about every next step to be able to do it. So I am, I am sincerely glad everybody's okay. I'm glad it went well, well ish, you know, ⁓ it's that everybody's healthy. Mom is good.
Andrew Saunders (38:34.306)
⁓ Ironically for us, everybody's healthy. Everybody's fine. There were no real complications, no real issues. ⁓ I think all of our ⁓ negatives, if there are any, came from the hospital being ⁓ small. They came from our ⁓ lack of understanding about what resources and how prepared they had to be.
Benjamin Brown (38:41.699)
Mm-hmm.
Benjamin Brown (38:47.469)
Mm-hmm.
Benjamin Brown (38:53.313)
Yeah. ⁓
Andrew Saunders (39:3.126)
because they didn't have backups, right? ⁓ Right, right. Yes, ⁓ and that's why ⁓ the original thing that got us in there on Thursday, the ⁓ external Spalloc version, right? It required the entire OB surgical team because if they had to do a crash C-section, they needed every member of the team available in there. So it had to be scheduled and it
Benjamin Brown (39:3.321)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, there's not like five teams standing by. They can just jump in. There's like a team for each thing and that. Yeah. Yeah.
Benjamin Brown (39:18.799)
Mm-hmm.
Benjamin Brown (39:23.535)
Mm.
Benjamin Brown (39:28.557)
Yeah, that's the whole team.
Andrew Saunders (39:32.651)
had to be ⁓ at a time when they could afford to do a crash C-section and still complete their other business for the day, right? Because it's not like they could just shut down the OB wing for a... ⁓ And so ⁓ once we understood that, the scheduling made a lot more sense, ⁓ but the procedure was still frustrating for us because again, we'd gone through it before and ⁓ yeah. ⁓
Benjamin Brown (39:41.357)
Yeah.
Benjamin Brown (39:44.674)
Right.
Benjamin Brown (39:51.641)
Mm-hmm.
Benjamin Brown (39:56.535)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You've been through it at a bigger hospital with more resources and, and, know, potentially better equipped or, or even potentially more highly skilled teams who do it more often.
Andrew Saunders (40:7.041)
Right, right. Well, and to my wife's credit, right, we were trying to figure out why they think, why they said that most ⁓ women need an epidural. And the reality is they need the pain block because the immediate response to someone pressing on your stomach very hard or your abdomen ⁓ is for you to tense all your muscles, right? And you have to stay extremely relaxed and most people don't have abdominal muscle control. And she goes,
Benjamin Brown (40:16.889)
Mm-hmm.
Benjamin Brown (40:26.605)
Hmm.
Right, you have to stay relaxed.
Benjamin Brown (40:35.683)
Hmm.
Andrew Saunders (40:36.547)
well, that's easy. And I went, what are you talking about? She's like, I was a dancer for 14 years. ⁓ I have control of my abdominal muscles ⁓ in a very real sense, right? Like you say relax and I can just relax them. And I'm like, ⁓ that like
Benjamin Brown (40:42.191)
Yeah.
Benjamin Brown (40:51.885)
Yeah, most people can't do that. It's an involuntary response for sure.
Andrew Saunders (40:55.041)
Yeah, and so that explains why for her, they both went very quickly. So I don't want to give people like this false impression, this should be an easy medical procedure. But for my wife, it was. ⁓ And again, the team in Utah was very much like, no, no, this is a common thing. We do it all the time. And so I think there's just a, the team here did two or three a month, right? Utah probably did two or three a week. And so it's just a different, ⁓ anyway.
Benjamin Brown (41:4.495)
Mm.
Benjamin Brown (41:17.185)
Mm-hmm. Right, right. Right. Yeah. It was exactly the same experience with our ⁓ emergency C-section, right? It was very ⁓ matter of fact. I ⁓ will say the second one, the scheduled C-section, was really strange because I was hearing the doctor who was literally having a conversation about his Disney cruise that he was about to go on.
while he's doing the C section on my wife. And it just speaks to the idea that like they do so many of these. It's such a common thing that as ⁓ it ⁓ actually I brought it up with him afterwards. I was like, ⁓ you know, you guys getting ready to go on a cruise blah, blah, blah. He goes, you heard that? And I was like, Yeah, I was like, honestly, strangely, it actually gave me some comfort because it showed to me
that you've done this so many times in so many different situations that you can have a completely different conversation other than what you're doing and still have a perfectly fine outcome and be confident that you know that your hands are doing exactly what they're supposed to do. ⁓ So yeah, I think that's, ⁓ it's strangely comforting.
Andrew Saunders (42:20.202)
and ⁓ be confident that you're gonna, yep.
Andrew Saunders (42:30.786)
⁓ I think the corollary that most people could understand is next time you're typing on a keyboard and you're actually writing a paragraph or an email, you're not just, yeah dude, that's cool, send, right? You're actually working through a whole paragraph. ⁓ See if you can look up ⁓ and pay attention to what's going on in the room while completing the ⁓ sentence while typing. And if you can do that,
Benjamin Brown (42:45.346)
in
Andrew Saunders (43:0.682)
you'll understand that that comfort corollary because you're so good at knowing what you're doing with your hands and finishing that your eyes can be doing something other than looking at the keys and that's ⁓ or the screen right like or and that's that's a weird skill to gain but once you do you can watch people freak out in meetings because you can look at them in the eye have the conversation ⁓ be typing and they're like no no stop like you're not ⁓ how are you like
Benjamin Brown (43:4.303)
Yeah.
Benjamin Brown (43:27.843)
Yeah. Yeah. ⁓
Andrew Saunders (43:29.986)
⁓ But ⁓ it gives me that same sense is like, ⁓ there were a couple times when our doctor did that. ⁓ That being said, I have to give him credit. ⁓ This is my favorite thing about our ⁓ ROB. His name is Dr. Pepper. ⁓ And here's the best part, he leans into it. So like he wears a Dr. Pepper badge with liquid Dr. Pepper in it all day every day. ⁓
Benjamin Brown (43:34.338)
Yeah.
Benjamin Brown (43:48.260)
Ha ⁓
Benjamin Brown (43:57.231)
That's awesome.
Andrew Saunders (43:57.932)
Yeah, so he's all over it. And I said this at the top of episode, in the middle of the night, so he had to show up at 6 AM on Thursday. And then sometime around 5.30, 6, when it was time for him to go home, he couldn't leave because she was there and she was in labor. And so he showed up and he's like, I'm just going to hang out with you guys. And around midnight, 2 or 3 in the morning,
Benjamin Brown (44:16.131)
Mm-hmm. ⁓
Andrew Saunders (44:24.553)
he had gotten, we had all gotten comfortable enough that he was chilling in the hospital room, just chatting with us, right? We talked about ⁓ his med school experiences. We talked about our experiences in Utah, why we moved to Utah, you know, which is really, that's a weird conversation to have with your doctor. ⁓ you're in a delivery room, your wife is actively in labor and she's talking about her first divorce ⁓ and what that nonsense was like.
Benjamin Brown (44:32.196)
Yeah.
Benjamin Brown (44:43.609)
Yeah.
Benjamin Brown (44:51.329)
Yep. ⁓
Andrew Saunders (44:53.151)
while she's getting ready to have her third kid with her second husband and they're reminiscing about their divorces. And I'm just sitting there as an observer, like, well, this is a weird conversation to be having at this moment in my life, but ⁓ hey, if everybody's relaxed, what do I care at four in the morning? Yeah, yeah. So that is ⁓ an upside to what I would call the rural American medical experience is ⁓ we now have a better relationship with our family practitioner.
Benjamin Brown (45:7.201)
Everybody's comfortable. I guess that's all that matters, right? Well, awesome, ⁓
Benjamin Brown (45:16.461)
Yeah.
Andrew Saunders (45:22.175)
as a person that we, ⁓ and he's not just our doctor, right? Now he is kind of an acquaintance or a friend, if that makes any sense. He's not just the guy who writes me my high blood pressure medicine. ⁓ So pluses and minuses, I guess, but. ⁓
Benjamin Brown (45:24.473)
Right.
Benjamin Brown (45:32.291)
Yeah. No, does.
⁓ Ha ha ha ha ha.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, awesome. I'm super glad that everybody's healthy. You know, I'm sure the audience is happy for you guys that you've welcomed a new life into your, into your world. So now you're a father of three, two girls and a boy going to be a totally not a totally new experience, but a very different experience since we all know that every, every kid is different and it's always, always a challenge. Yeah. Yeah. You are out. You are outnumbered. You're outnumbered. Well, awesome. think that's a good place.
Andrew Saunders (46:3.243)
I'm on zone defense now. I'm no longer a man to man coverage. I gotta go zone. Yeah. ⁓ So, and car seats don't fit anymore. Like you basically, I basically have to buy an eight passenger vehicle because getting three car seats in the back of any standard vehicle is ⁓ nigh impossible friends. ⁓
Benjamin Brown (46:13.068)
No, they don't.
Benjamin Brown (46:22.401)
You need a you need a full size pickup. There's a couple there's a couple that'll do three across all I'm saying it's ⁓ I am convinced that pickups are one of the best family vehicles ever invented. Like you can change a kid on the tailgate. It's perfect.
Andrew Saunders (46:25.431)
Right? ⁓
Andrew Saunders (46:34.563)
You
You're probably not wrong. The question is the one I'm going to want is probably outside my budget for a mortgage, let alone ⁓ my budget for a new car. Yeah, you know, it is what it is. ⁓ There are going to be some photos up ⁓ of myself and baby boy ⁓ on my dad verb Instagram. So if anybody is curious, ⁓ Saunders.dadverb, ⁓ I'm going to have a couple photos of us just kind of.
Benjamin Brown (46:43.887)
⁓ Yeah, well, you know, we all got it. We are. We all got to have dreams, right?
Andrew Saunders (47:4.843)
right after birth and then I might post a family photo. ⁓ I might not. ⁓ I'm not a big fan of putting my kids on social media, but he's ⁓ like, I got some really good shots of him and me in the hospital and I think the world just deserves to know. So ⁓ he might go up there pretty anonymous, but we'll see.
Benjamin Brown (47:13.635)
Fair enough.
Benjamin Brown (47:24.175)
⁓ That's awesome,
Well, we'll look forward to the man and congratulations again. We're happy for you and we're glad that everything is as sideways as it may have gone. I think everything went went really well. ⁓ yeah, I I don't I remember the text message.
Andrew Saunders (47:30.051)
⁓ Thank you. Thank you.
Andrew Saunders (47:37.696)
We forgot the name. Do you remember my ⁓ name thing? Okay, so ⁓ all of my kids have acronyms. So the first one is TPK, total party kill. The second one is SOS for save our souls. ⁓ This child's name is Richard Patten, Patten, sorry, my wife hates it when I do that. Richard Patten Gibbs, which are all family names for us.
And that's RPG for role-playing game so All three of my kids have somewhat D &D related Acronyms as their their names and they're all three banger names because I'm that guy on the birth certificate Yeah, so but yeah Richard Pat Richard Patton Gibbs was born at 742 Basically six days 12 hours ago
Benjamin Brown (48:21.890)
There you go.
Benjamin Brown (48:34.857)
Awesome, ⁓ Well, that I think is a great place for ⁓ us to wrap up today's episode. ⁓ Great. Thank you for telling us your story. I think it's really important that we share this stuff with everybody because everybody's experiences are different. And as always, ⁓ if you guys are out there and you want more kind of fatherhood chats, want to talk about your birth stories or share anything with other dads, you can always join us on the dad verb discord.
⁓ And also as always we want this podcast to reach as many dads as we possibly can so wherever you're listening Spotify Apple Wherever it is, whatever you're listening platform of choices. Make sure to go ahead and give us a rating We'd appreciate five stars leave us a comment ⁓ Let us know any topics that you would want to hear on an upcoming episode of the dad verb podcast And as always thank you guys for listening. We'll see you the next one. Peace
Andrew Saunders (49:22.520)
Peace. ⁓
