Andrew Saunders (0:11.054)
All right, well, you're here for another episode of the Dad Verb Podcast. ⁓ As you can tell, I am not Ben Brown. It's Saunders. ⁓ Ben is unavailable this week. He is doing the travel dad thing, taking a big vacation with the family. And ⁓ unfortunately, Mommer took off on vacation as well. So I'm just going to sit here and talk for 30 minutes ⁓ about adoption. I wasn't adopted. I have not adopted. It's going to be great. No, I'm kidding. I actually,
Nate Klein (0:18.009)
you
Andrew Saunders (0:38.786)
pulled out some big guns, I reached into my bag of trips and I brought back the original, the one, the only dad verb, Mr. Two.
Andrew Tiu (0:47.764)
What's Dude, it's so weird not hosting this podcast and letting you run with the intro, but hey, I'm gonna keep my mouth shut and let you run this show, man. Happy to be back. It's so weird. Yeah, man.
Nate Klein (0:52.723)
Thank ⁓
Andrew Saunders (0:55.670)
Just yeah, you're guest man. You're guest you gave it up. It's mine now. No Anyway, ⁓ so ⁓ We're gonna talk about ⁓ adoption this week ⁓ on Saturday I was at a Christmas Bazaar kind of doing the gift guide thing and I ran into a nice gentleman by the name of Nate Klein ⁓ and ⁓ Nate had two books ⁓ that his daughters had written
Andrew Tiu (1:14.469)
bizarre.
Andrew Saunders (1:20.514)
And it turns out they were about their adoption story and my dad verb brain clicked immediately. And I think that was like the first thing I said to him was, ⁓ do you want to do the podcast? ⁓ And he said, yes. Like, so he's, he's crazy. He's one of us. ⁓ and then, and then when mom or bailed on me at about three o'clock this afternoon, ⁓
Nate Klein (1:31.095)
Yes.
Nate Klein (1:35.213)
Yes, full in.
Andrew Saunders (1:43.382)
I went into panic mode and I called Mr. Two and I got ahold of another friend who introduced me to our second guest whose name is Josh. ⁓ And Josh is ⁓ my best friend's former neighbor. It's probably the best way to describe him. Yeah, ⁓ yeah, yeah. ⁓ And he also adopted some children. So welcome gentlemen. ⁓ Appreciate you coming in and doing the podcast with us. And then ⁓ we start off every episode with the sick check.
Josh (1:56.044)
Yeah, yep, exactly right.
Andrew Tiu (1:56.880)
that is.
Nate Klein (1:56.941)
Carry the one. I like that.
Andrew Saunders (2:12.234)
And we are currently one week successfully with no families sick. So yeah, let's not ruin that. ⁓ We'll give the honors to Mr. Tu since he's here.
Nate Klein (2:13.048)
love it.
Andrew Tiu (2:24.400)
Dude, we've actually been on a good run. Knock on some wood, man. ⁓ We're good over here. We're good. I'm happy to report. We're healthy.
Andrew Saunders (2:32.406)
All right, all right. Josh, how about you guys?
Josh (2:36.152)
Yeah, we're solid. ⁓ had one of them get sick ⁓ maybe a month ago, but we're solid right now. you know, the season's just starting, so we'll see.
Andrew Saunders (2:47.534)
All right, good to hear, good to hear. Nate?
Nate Klein (2:51.031)
I think the steady diet of eating things off the floor for the rest of the year has built up a really good immune system for the clients and all four are healthy and ⁓ good to go right now. So it's the season to try to change that.
Andrew Saunders (3:3.244)
Nice, nice.
Thanks guys, I appreciate this because my eldest has an ear infection. We're on like day eight of amoxicillin. So ⁓ I'm the one who kills it. ⁓ Emergency room Sunday after Thanksgiving. ⁓ actually, so ⁓ I used to have chronic ear infections when I was a kid. So I bought a camera otoscope for myself.
Andrew Tiu (3:13.090)
No. ⁓ No. ⁓
Andrew Saunders (3:26.232)
So I walked into the emergency room and like, my daughter has an ear infection and the PA is like, where did you get photos of the inside of her ear? And I'm like, I have an otoscope and I looked and she has an ear infection. Can you please just give me some drugs? ⁓ And she was like, this is the nicest thing we've had all weekend. This was easy. yeah. Anyway, ⁓ yeah, it was, ⁓ you've seen my desk. It's ridiculous over here, okay? ⁓ All right, so here we are.
Nate Klein (3:34.563)
Doesn't everyone?
Nate Klein (3:44.641)
love that.
Andrew Tiu (3:45.742)
You would, ⁓
Andrew Saunders (3:53.741)
We're going to talk adoption with Nate and Josh. ⁓ I have not adopted anyone. My wife and I talked about it when we had our first miscarriage. Like what if we couldn't conceive and what would that path look like for us? ⁓ So that was an interesting trip. ⁓ Nate, Josh, ⁓ anybody want to start? Anybody feeling adventurous? mean, can you give us a update on who you are, how big of a family, and how did you end up as a adopted father?
Nate Klein (4:23.459)
Quiet, Josh.
Josh (4:24.092)
I can go I guess. ⁓ Yeah so we, ⁓ my wife and I, I gotta think real quick. I think we've been married 18 years. I think I'd have to run that by the boss but I believe it's 18 years. Yeah. ⁓ So ⁓ you know we kind of got a little bit of a late start. ⁓ You know early on we were just working, ⁓ just busy living life and ⁓
Andrew Saunders (4:25.516)
Yeah. ⁓
Andrew Saunders (4:35.438)
You
Andrew Tiu (4:37.424)
That's a good run, man. That a boy.
Andrew Saunders (4:38.117)
Get approval on that one.
Josh (4:53.380)
think I was probably like 38 and then my wife was like 35 and we were like, you know, maybe we better think about starting to have, I remember thinking, I don't want to be an old man when my kids graduate. And like, we're, you know, I'm almost there. So, you know, we started, we started, you know, we just started going, going to it and it just things didn't work out, you know.
⁓ I don't even know, like I never once ⁓ ever thought that if I wanted to have a kid, just assumed, know, ⁓ mix the ingredients and you get a kid, you know, it's just follow the recipe. never once in my life did I think ⁓ that that would not happen for us. you know, after trial and trial and trial and error, trial and error, ⁓ you know, it's kind of funny.
Andrew Tiu (5:38.660)
Yeah.
Josh (5:51.908)
⁓ and maybe this is just a guy thing, but ⁓ when we first started having trouble not conceiving, my wife's doctor said, you need to get checked out ⁓ and also tell your husband he needs to go get checked out. And I just assumed, ⁓ I did a quick Google search. said, ⁓ the Google search says ⁓ most of the time it's gonna be the... ⁓
Andrew Saunders (6:16.453)
to Google.
Josh (6:20.770)
you know, a lady issue. And so I was like, well, if I'm not going to, if I don't have to go talk to a doctor about this, I'm not going to. And so, you know, we waited around and I never made an appointment. And then my wife had ⁓ everything, all her appointments and her doctor said, yeah, you're perfectly healthy. There should be no reason you guys aren't conceiving. ⁓ What did your husband's doctor say? ⁓ So she asked me and I'm like,
Andrew Tiu (6:25.328)
Hmm.
Nate Klein (6:42.777)
Thank
Josh (6:49.388)
Yeah, about that. ⁓ So then I was like, holy smokes, it's me. I was just so arrogant. was like, it's me? ⁓ I didn't think that was possible. I ⁓ went and got checked out. ⁓ I don't know the technical term, ⁓ but shooting blanks, I think, is what they call it in the doctor's office. ⁓ And I was just kind of like, it was just like, ⁓
Nate Klein (6:49.465)
⁓ Well, he's getting back to me. ⁓
Andrew Tiu (7:5.360)
Yeah.
Josh (7:19.940)
The good thing about that is that's something that's fairly easy to solve for ⁓ modern medicine. After that, we were able to ⁓ successfully get pregnant. Go ahead.
Andrew Tiu (7:30.862)
Huh. Wait, what?
Josh (7:37.240)
Was there a question there? Yeah.
Andrew Saunders (7:37.432)
See you soon.
Andrew Tiu (7:37.858)
I was just curious, like, ⁓ when you hear ⁓ this, my bad, I'm pretty sure I'm having a lag, which ⁓ this has happened in the past. I'm ⁓ very guilty of this. ⁓ I'm really curious though. So when you first get that, like, okay, you're officially shooting blanks, like, what is that conversation like? What are you feeling in that moment? Are you ⁓ kind of like in shock? Are you kind of like feeling any sort of guilt? you like, how was that?
Andrew Saunders (7:45.262)
So this is a known to problem, yeah.
Andrew Tiu (8:4.933)
process happen? ⁓ Or how are you processing that? And then, you know, what's that following conversation with your wife and kind of how did you guys, you know, move on from that?
Josh (8:11.800)
Yeah.
Yeah, maybe I felt a little bit of guilt as far as like, ⁓ shoot, like didn't look into this before. I just assumed I wasn't the problem. It's gotta be somebody else, it can't be me. ⁓ So ⁓ I had guilt in that way, but ⁓ other than that, ⁓ don't, you know, no issues from my wife, like she wasn't.
She's super supportive. ⁓ The good thing is they make medicine that helps you ramp up your numbers ⁓ and that all worked. ⁓ It takes a while. It's a process. ⁓ I ⁓ mostly just felt dumb that I thought it couldn't be me. That was where I felt, yeah, just was like, well, it's got to be her.
Nate Klein (9:7.565)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Saunders (9:8.482)
Right, you made the assumption.
Andrew Tiu (9:11.697)
you
Josh (9:14.168)
Can't be me. I'm in tip-top shape, you know?
Andrew Saunders (9:15.340)
Now, ⁓ you don't have to answer this if you don't want to, but is there like a, do you have like a, yeah, the horse kicked me in the balls when I was six. Like that's what, right? Like, do you have that moment in your past when you're like, ⁓ maybe that was the problem. That was the, yeah. Or is it just, was it truly like a surprise?
Nate Klein (9:24.281)
You
Josh (9:25.156)
⁓ No, so...
Nate Klein (9:29.305)
That's why. ⁓
Josh (9:32.610)
Yeah, no. ⁓ Yeah, complete surprise. ⁓ I don't think ⁓ I probably take the taking the average number of ⁓ groin shots ⁓ that a normal guy's taken, you know, through life. ⁓ I but nothing, nothing major never never got kicked by a horse never, you know, ⁓ you know, skating a rail and then, you know, just dropped it all on a rail or anything, just normal stuff, you know. ⁓ But
Nate Klein (9:43.577)
You ⁓
Andrew Saunders (9:45.742)
⁓ One too many towels in the locker room. ⁓
Andrew Tiu (10:1.915)
You
Josh (10:2.562)
Yeah, it was just strange. It was more like surreal. I've heard this happening to people. Just never on earth did I think that that was going to be me. ⁓ I've always been a very healthy guy, don't have health issues. ⁓ And so it was just like, hmm, ⁓ this is weird. But ⁓ we just followed the protocol with the doctor. ⁓ And yeah, was... ⁓
It worked, you I was able to, ⁓ we successfully got pregnant three times ⁓ in miscarriages.
You know, and ⁓ it got to the point with my wife where it was very difficult for her to continue. ⁓ you know, that's something hard. It's extremely hard if you've been through that. It's like, you know, I don't want to ask her to do something that she's not, you know, I'm a, ⁓ you know, put your, put your head down and go to it type of type of guy. we can, you know, if we just keep going, it's going to work at some point, but ⁓ it's easy for me to turn off the, emotions of it.
Andrew Tiu (11:7.534)
Nate, did you have a-
Andrew Tiu (11:12.651)
Did Nate have a similar kind of experience with that same kind of experience in a doctor's office or was it kind of like a different kind of process leading up to ⁓ the question of adoption?
Nate Klein (11:24.953)
Yeah, very similar experience. you know, we both came from big families. My wife was one of four kids. have several siblings. Her dad was one of 11. Her mom was one of 14. So we're like, yeah, we're like, we've got fertile myrtle throughout. And, uh, we were actually down in Georgia when we got married. And so we're both from Iowa and have since moved back, but, um, we've been married for 14 years. And so when we first started, we're like, let's get at it right away. And then didn't work.
Andrew Saunders (11:36.601)
Wow.
haha
Nate Klein (11:54.905)
didn't work like, okay, this is, ⁓ we didn't ⁓ know of anyone within our circles that had been adopted or been impacted by adoption. Like we knew it happened. It just wasn't within our family or at least what we knew of. We found out later that was different. And so we both wouldn't get, got checked out and similar to Josh. Well, ⁓ I was shooting blanks and my wife. like we both sucked. Like we both, we both weren't very good at this whole making babies thing.
Um, so it was equal distribution of, of that. Just right. Yeah. Plenty of practice to get to that point. Um, and unfortunate thing is like Josh, you probably experienced this. There are solutions that you can go through. So we went through IVF and that's, that's no joke. That's not only from a financial perspective, um, just a time. And for the, for the guy, for the dad to be, it's nothing, uh, for Jenny it.
Andrew Saunders (12:24.270)
⁓ But ⁓ despite the practice, right, there was plenty of practice. ⁓
Josh (12:39.640)
Mm-hmm.
Josh (12:43.374)
Yeah.
Nate Klein (12:53.203)
sick. I mean, it's changed her biology, like the amount of things that went into her body. And I vividly remember we actually started this process when we moved to South Carolina ⁓ and they gave us like this lime and a needle. And I, was supposed to like give her the medicine and she watched, she's a nurse. So she like knows all this stuff. It's just, it was difficult to do it to herself. And so I was like practicing on this lime and it wasn't good folks. And so she's like, why don't you give you that real quick? ⁓
Andrew Tiu (12:58.649)
Hmm.
Nate Klein (13:22.229)
And we tried three different sessions and similarly had a few different miscarriages and one on Christmas day. And it was hard. And ⁓ it was the last time that ⁓ we had gone through an IVF and it was our last cycle. ⁓ And ⁓ we get a, we're actually having lunch at this place called taco sushi, which was delicious. ⁓ And we get this call and it was like, ⁓ didn't work.
Andrew Tiu (13:41.243)
Hmm.
Andrew Saunders (13:50.476)
Wow. ⁓
Nate Klein (13:51.287)
Yeah. And so luckily we had had some conversations before that, like, okay, do we want to be like the funkle and the fun aunt? Like, is that our path in life or do we want to have kids? And we're like, ⁓ we, want to be a mom and dad. ⁓ So.
Andrew Tiu (14:4.434)
Hmm.
Andrew Saunders (14:8.335)
So what ⁓ do you guys mind talking about the like, okay, you've got the diagnosis, right? You've you've now gone through the emotional roller coaster that is all the processes behind the medical treatments, the doctor's office, the social stigmas, the friend stigmas, the right everything that's out there. ⁓ Like what were when you finally reach the moment of I'm going to adopt a child, right? That's that's my path. ⁓ What
Andrew Tiu (14:9.170)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Saunders (14:38.669)
What was the hardest part between those journeys? Right? I mean, there's obviously a physical toll, but like, what was the thing that kind of, ⁓ that, that ⁓ put it in cemented it for you or the, ⁓ don't know what I'm trying to say here, right? Like, I'd like to know, like the moment when you're like, we're never doing this and I'm just going to be a fun uncle forever. And the moment when you were like, no, ⁓ I, that that's it. Right? That's the moment. ⁓ cause for,
Nate Klein (14:54.051)
Yeah. ⁓
Andrew Saunders (15:6.775)
Again, a majority of guys out there, right? ⁓ We don't experience that. ⁓ And on the other side of the coin, ⁓ we don't ever even ask the question. So I think there are gonna be some people out there who are listening to this and going, ⁓ my God, there are two other guys who are going through the moment I'm at, right? Or we're in the middle of IVF and it hasn't worked and I'm on my fourth miscarriage, right? And they're just struggling. ⁓ can you give them the like, this was my rock bottom and this was the moment I knew I had a future? ⁓
Andrew Tiu (15:25.510)
Hmm. ⁓
Andrew Saunders (15:36.963)
Does that question follow? Like, okay.
Nate Klein (15:38.083)
Yeah, that tracks.
Andrew Tiu (15:38.597)
Yeah, no, that makes a lot. And let me, ⁓ I'm sorry for my delay, ⁓ because I know I have ⁓ a slight delay, but I'm also on top of that question, if you don't mind, can you like talk about what preconceived notions that you might have had about ⁓ adoption leading up to this and then confronting that and saying, no, this is the path that we are actually going to take. And then, you know, what that was like after.
Nate Klein (15:43.897)
You're good.
Andrew Saunders (15:55.107)
Yeah.
Nate Klein (16:3.235)
Yeah. I it was, ⁓ I'm a problem solver. like there's a problem. Here's, here's the alternate solution and here are the options. And Josh can talk about this more. Like my wife works in the medical industry and fostering is like, yup. You have a big heart if you're doing that, because the purpose of that system is to reunite families. ⁓ And we just had been down the path of. We want to have a family. And so when we got that call, we had already made up our mind, like, this is crappy.
Josh (16:9.112)
Yeah. Yep.
Nate Klein (16:32.696)
We don't want people to say everything happens for a reason, which by the way, if you've got someone in your life that's going through this, don't tell them that you can just say that's really crappy. And then you can leave it at that. Um, but we decided that we're going to move back home and start our family that way. Cause we, we needed, we had a bunch of good friends, but they weren't family and we needed to move back home. And we immediately started that process and we, we actually had made the decision that we're going to do an international adoption process. Uh, we had.
Josh (16:45.006)
read
Nate Klein (17:2.401)
Long story short, we did our honeymoon in Africa and fell in love with the culture there with all the people ⁓ and, also international adoptions. ⁓ they're not open. ⁓ And we were at the point where we just, we wanted a child to be our child. ⁓ And we had, we had made that commitment. We had told all of our family and friends, which is a really, really difficult thing to do because there's a stigma of like, there's something wrong with you. ⁓ And if we can start to normalize like.
Andrew Tiu (17:15.814)
Mm.
Nate Klein (17:32.075)
infertility, that would be really cool. And start talking about it because not enough people do, including dads, because all of us are like, yeah, I'm going to coach my kid and someone's going to come up to me in the soccer field like, that's your kid, right? He looks like just like you, he acts just like you. And that's not the case. That's not the case for everyone. So ⁓ yeah, that
Andrew Saunders (17:51.664)
I mean, ⁓ I do want to give both of you guys credit, Andrew started this with dad verb, dad the action. And ⁓ while most dads can become fathers and parents, you guys actually had to take action to become dads in the very initial and core. And that's ⁓ some power and some bravery that not a lot of people have. So kudos to you guys for truly living the dad verb, right?
Nate Klein (18:17.305)
Yeah, we actually have a saying, I'll let Josh chime in, but we have a saying that most kids are born into a family and some kids are born for a family. And we talk about that a lot as just an extended family as well. But Josh, experience.
Josh (18:19.096)
Yeah, thanks.
Andrew Saunders (18:28.281)
That's in one of the books. ⁓
How about you, Josh?
Josh (18:36.844)
Yeah, so ⁓ once all that took place with us, were ⁓ kind of like, okay, ⁓ just like Nate said, ⁓ problem solver. it's like, ⁓ move on to the next thing. We hit a roadblock, maneuver, go around, left or right. ⁓ My wife wasn't ⁓ quite there yet. So we took some time and we thought and we looked at... ⁓
adoption, we met with some adoption agencies, we ⁓ talked to a whole bunch of people. ⁓ you know, adopting can be extremely expensive. ⁓ I think that's something I didn't know going into. And you know, we're not rich people. ⁓ We don't, you know, so, you know, as we started looking at this, was like, I don't even know if we can do this, you know, it's
Andrew Tiu (19:27.741)
Thank ⁓
Josh (19:34.276)
I'm like, how are we going to do this? And, you know, we wanted to have a family.
Andrew Tiu (19:36.017)
What makes it so expensive? it? ⁓
Nate Klein (19:39.981)
That's, that's a good, I still got a loan out on my fourth child, by the way, ⁓ legit. Like I, legit have a, I have a 15 year loan out on my child and I love him and it's the best investment we've ever made, but it, it is ridiculous. Like ours ranged from he better pay off. ⁓ He will. He's got the biggest smile for sure.
Josh (19:44.484)
⁓ It's crazy.
Andrew Saunders (19:45.751)
No, that's, I actually found that out. Yeah, somebody.
Josh (19:56.056)
But he better pay off.
Hahaha! ⁓
Andrew Saunders (20:1.620)
The ⁓ comedy. ⁓
Josh (20:4.164)
Yeah, it's crazy. can be like 20 to 50 thousand. The thing I had trouble with talking to these agencies and stuff, they can't tell you how much it's going to cost. They say every child is different. It depends on where the child is coming from, the situation of the mother. There's so many things that go into it. yeah, and there's just so much that goes into legal fees.
Nate Klein (20:4.227)
Yeah, it's
Andrew Saunders (20:27.343)
a lot of its legal fees and regulations, right? Like this is paying lawyers, paying visas.
Josh (20:32.404)
Most of it is, ⁓ yeah, if ⁓ the kid's coming from the US, a lot of it is going to ⁓ the mother to have the baby. ⁓ It was explained to us, it depends on the mother's situation. Healthcare for the mother, that's right. If she's got healthcare, it's going to be cheaper, but ⁓ if she doesn't or there's times where the mother will make a deal, like yeah, you can... ⁓
Nate Klein (20:48.121)
healthcare for the mother.
Josh (21:2.082)
I'll give my baby up for adoption, ⁓ I don't have a safe place to live while I'm pregnant. Can you supply that? And they'll just come and say, ⁓ if you want this child, ⁓ it's going to be more ⁓ so that we can supply this mother with a good place to ⁓ live. ⁓ So it can just run the gamut. can run ⁓ the gamut. we looked at it and we just thought, Jesus, this is going to be real tough.
Andrew Tiu (21:23.251)
Hmm.
Josh (21:31.468)
And I had a chance meeting with a guy that changed everything for us. ⁓ I was golfing. I worked in the golf industry and I was golfing with a guy. We were just talking and then you meet people and, know, hey, how you doing? Are you married? How many kids you have? And so we just got to talking and I told him, yeah, we don't have kids. We've been looking at adoption, but we're struggling because it's ⁓ a lot of money.
And he goes, oh, that wasn't my experience. And I was like, oh, what do mean? He's like, I adopted a kid. I got paid to adopt a kid. And I was like, oh.
Nate Klein (22:11.417)
Same out. What? ⁓
Josh (22:11.908)
I'm like, this is not the situation I've heard. ⁓ so he, so then he, he went on to tell me about foster system. ⁓ you know, he told me they, they got, they, ⁓ him and his wife, when they first got married, ⁓ they, ⁓ they could have their own kids, but they wanted, they wanted to foster. they, they did that first. And, he told me his whole story and I was like, this is amazing. Like helping, helping kids ⁓ that, that, you know, helping kids that
Andrew Saunders (22:12.432)
⁓ Yeah.
Andrew Tiu (22:13.445)
Whoa. Whoa. Yeah. ⁓
Josh (22:41.012)
already exist ⁓ that need help. ⁓ I love helping people. ⁓ I just ⁓ like being ⁓ of use to somebody. So was like, this sounds like a great idea. ⁓ So we went down that path and it was like a year process to go through ⁓ all the classes, everything that you have to go through. You could probably do it faster than a year. ⁓
There's a lot of classes and all this stuff that you've got to do to make sure that they're vetting the people who are taking in these children. ⁓ So we went through that process ⁓ for about a year and then we finally got our foster license and they're like, ⁓ the whole time they're just telling you, you know, there's so many kids and not enough people doing this. So you'll get a kid right away. A month goes by, two months go by, six months goes by.
Andrew Saunders (23:39.118)
Wow.
Josh (23:41.290)
And we were like, and we forgot about it. We were like, okay, no. It was like nine months had gone by. were like, we started looking at adopting again. We started talking to an agency and it was like two days before Christmas, we get a phone call from the state and, ⁓ and they say, Hey, we've got three kids that need a house. ⁓ and our license was only for two kids. ⁓ and it was, it's so funny cause they make a big deal of the licenses and stuff.
Andrew Tiu (24:8.637)
Hmm.
Nate Klein (24:10.521)
Thank you. ⁓
Josh (24:11.020)
And then as soon as like there's a need, like, were like, well, our license is only for two kids. And they're like, we'll fix that. ⁓ We'll just scribble out the two and write the three or whatever they do. ⁓ And so ⁓ it was like two days before Christmas, we're seeing my folks in Denver. We live in Utah and we're seeing my folks in Denver. ⁓ they're like, yeah, so when ⁓ you get back home, we've got three kids for you.
Nate Klein (24:17.081)
⁓ Scribble out the number.
Andrew Saunders (24:19.504)
edit, replace, ⁓ copy two, paste three, yeah.
Andrew Tiu (24:20.584)
I'm
Josh (24:40.894)
And we're just like, ⁓ okay. Yeah, Merry Christmas. And it was crazy. We ⁓ showed up at a Target parking lot and... ⁓
Nate Klein (24:43.213)
Yes, let's go.
Andrew Saunders (24:44.036)
Merry Christmas.
Nate Klein (24:54.265)
Yeah.
Andrew Saunders (24:56.900)
The... Look, ⁓ I really believe that this is a very legitimate process, but this sounds like the biggest, like, ⁓ I showed up in a parking lot, somebody handed me three kids, like...
Josh (24:56.900)
⁓ I'm gonna really try not to get emotional. I'm gonna try not get emotional here.
Nate Klein (24:57.089)
I have a very similar parking lot story.
Andrew Tiu (24:59.335)
Wow.
Josh (25:5.368)
But,
Josh (25:9.302)
We, long story ⁓ short, we rolled into a Target and rolled out with three kids, like within 15 minutes. Like it was crazy. Like we showed up, there's three crying kids. ⁓ Yeah, there's three crying kids hugging their grandma. ⁓ you know, we, and we drove off with them. ⁓ And we drove off with them. ⁓ And it was tough. It was tough to see. It was tough to watch.
Andrew Tiu (25:10.671)
Facebook marketplace deal.
Nate Klein (25:19.427)
That's the ultimate target challenge right there.
Andrew Tiu (25:27.324)
Whoa.
Andrew Tiu (25:30.842)
⁓ my gosh. Wow. ⁓
Josh (25:38.532)
Their situation was, you know, really tough. were with their mom. Mom lost custody. He went with their dad. Dad lost custody. And their grandma who is a great lady, but not in a position to care for three kids. Like she's the one who called the state and was like, I need help. I can't do it. And, you know, it broke her heart. But she made what I think is the right decision.
Andrew Tiu (25:50.590)
Man.
Andrew Tiu (26:6.652)
What are those initial days like? That's huge transition in your life. ⁓ What are those initial days like when you, ⁓ yeah, mean, ⁓ you come out of a parking lot with kids now who, you know, they had a bond with their biological family. I'm just curious what that was like.
Josh (26:7.958)
is and holy smoke
Nate Klein (26:12.173)
Insane.
Josh (26:13.762)
Yeah. ⁓
Josh (26:24.930)
Yeah, ⁓ who don't know you.
Yeah.
Andrew Saunders (26:32.068)
Like, well, not even that, let's put some content. How old were they, if you don't mind?
Josh (26:33.304)
crazy.
Josh (26:39.076)
⁓ Yeah, so eight ten and eleven ⁓ So we so when you go through that process they they ask you like how many you know? Like what age kids do you want and we wanted school-aged kids? ⁓ You know we weren't necessarily looking for a baby or anything. We just wanted you know some school-aged kids My wife's a schoolteacher, so we thought that would be a great fit. She teaches elementary and ⁓
Andrew Saunders (26:43.856)
So you... Whoa.
Andrew Tiu (26:46.610)
Wow, man. Wow, man.
Josh (27:5.122)
Yeah, so eight, 10 and 11, the boys are 11 and a half months apart.
Andrew Saunders (27:10.980)
Wow. So you went from no kids to basically three junior teenagers.
Josh (27:12.094)
and ⁓ just crazy. Who... ⁓ atom bomb in the life. ⁓ Explosion just ⁓ boom. And ⁓ it was crazy.
Nate Klein (27:18.124)
I like how put that.
Andrew Saunders (27:20.793)
Yeah. ⁓
How many times did you go grocery shopping that first week? Like, I feel like that was like a, we have food. we don't have any food. We have food. we don't have any food. Yeah, yeah. ⁓
Nate Klein (27:30.681)
⁓ More mac and cheese.
Josh (27:34.152)
So one ⁓ of the crazy things about these kids, ⁓ so ⁓ they weren't really abused, know, but they were neglected. you ⁓ know, some of this, I could go on forever about stories they've told us, but ⁓ food was a big deal to them, regular food. ⁓ One night we had a meal, just some pork chops, mashed potatoes and green beans.
just a normal meal for us, you know, and ⁓ we sat down and those kids, their faces just lit up and they're just like so happy and like just so happy. And I was like, what's going on? And ⁓ the oldest, he says, this ⁓ is a movie meal. And I said, what are you talking about? A movie meal, man, we're not watching anything. And he says, no, this is like what you see in a movie. This is like how like movie families eat. And I was like,
Nate Klein (28:22.200)
Hmm.
Nate Klein (28:32.366)
Bye.
Josh (28:32.770)
just pork chops, mashed potatoes and green beans. They never had anything like that before. ⁓ You know, it's just little stuff like that. It's like a huge adjustment. The first night, ⁓ the oldest, ⁓ he's the one who's kind of struggled the most with it. ⁓ The first night, so I'm not an overly emotional guy. ⁓ Like, you know, a pick yourself up by the bootstraps type of guy, you know, like, ⁓ you know.
life sucks but you know get over it ⁓ type of thing but he is you know this kid is having a rough time and ⁓ he's laying in bed just crying ⁓ and ⁓ he says he says can you stroke my hair to help me fall asleep ⁓ okay i i gotta i gotta i gotta i think i i kind of yeah i don't like i don't i don't i'm not a real touchy guy you know i don't yeah yeah i'm like
Nate Klein (29:22.239)
You're like, what? ⁓ What do I do with my hands? ⁓
Andrew Saunders (29:27.694)
Like, I don't know if I'm legally allowed to do that. ⁓
Josh (29:32.228)
I'm like petting him like a dog. I'm like, go to sleep, please. Just go to sleep petting his head. I was just like, I don't, I'm not, I'm not built for this aspect of it. But yeah, it was just crazy to watch these kids just have to transition, just leave everything they've known and just go into a scary unknown place.
Andrew Tiu (29:37.142)
ho ho ho
⁓ man.
Nate Klein (29:54.745)
Thank
Josh (30:0.248)
But those kids are amazing. They're so resilient. Yeah, there you go. It's just like, ⁓ mean, within a couple days, they're just like, ⁓ another funny story. So ⁓ very neglected in their lives. ⁓ the next morning, so that's a Sunday, the next morning, we're getting them up going to school. And they're like, all right, so we're getting them ready to school.
Nate Klein (30:3.225)
Brazilian.
Josh (30:30.070)
And so that's a Monday. Then Wednesday comes along and I'm waking them up, getting them ready for school. And they're like, school again? And I said, yeah, ⁓ it's Wednesday. Like Monday through Friday, we go to school. And he's like, I never had to go to school this much before. ⁓
Nate Klein (30:46.135)
Whoa. ⁓
Andrew Tiu (30:46.949)
⁓ man. ⁓ man. That's a new system.
Josh (30:47.682)
Well, they're like, we usually just go a couple times a week.
Andrew Saunders (30:49.486)
All right.
Josh (30:54.660)
Yeah, so it was just stuff like that, know crazy stuff So three years the end December 31st is when we got them. So just this this December 31st be three years. It's just crazy We officially adopted Officially adopted them this past June. So it took two and a half years
Nate Klein (30:54.809)
Wow.
Andrew Tiu (30:55.605)
⁓ How long has it been now?
Andrew Saunders (31:8.792)
and you form a line.
Nate Klein (31:17.336)
long time.
Andrew Saunders (31:17.626)
Wow. Wow. Congratulations. That's for free. What about you, Nate? I mean, know Josh just took us on a wild ride. Do you want to go through your ⁓ stories? ⁓ Do you mind?
Andrew Tiu (31:19.477)
Congratulations, man, it's incredible.
Josh (31:19.596)
Long time. Yeah. I appreciate ⁓ it. Yeah, thanks.
Nate Klein (31:21.603)
Yeah, congrats.
Nate Klein (31:32.555)
Yeah, ⁓ yeah, we'll we'll break them down. ⁓ We we started international, ⁓ poured a bunch of money and time into it, did the home study, ⁓ financial records back up to five years, all the assessments, psychological assessment, all the things that would be really great for all parents probably go through, honestly. And then we got we got dropped by our international agency ⁓ and they just said we're we're closing our adoptions ⁓ to Ethiopia.
Josh (31:43.801)
Yeah.
Nate Klein (32:1.377)
And so when we got, we went back to that place of like, is this God's plan? Like, are we supposed to be parents? ⁓ And so we took a trip to New York and we're like, let's figure this out. And we stuck through it and longer story shorter on a Wednesday night, we're having food at my mom's house out in Chewyville. And ⁓ my wife keeps her phone keeps ringing. She usually doesn't know where her phone is, but for some reason she did. She steps out of the ⁓ steps out for dinner. She's like, Hey, I think it's one of my workmates. And she comes back in she's like, I think we got a kid. I was like,
All right, let's go. ⁓ What's that look like? ⁓ And so if you can carry the one here, her workmates ⁓ mother's friend, her son ⁓ was raising his kiddo ⁓ and said, I can't do it anymore. need some help. And do know anyone that can help? And so they had called us and said, Hey, can you come pick up Delilah tonight? And I said, I think we need to call a lawyer first. I think that might be stealing. ⁓ But.
Andrew Saunders (32:58.927)
Right. ⁓ That might be custodial interference, maybe kidnapping, a couple things. Yeah.
Josh (32:59.614)
Yeah. ⁓
Nate Klein (33:1.913)
⁓ That might be interference. ⁓ Yeah, but we, we packed up when we, drove to Washington, Iowa that night to meet meter and at grandma fancy Nancy's house and birth mom, birth dad, Taylor and Jonathan were both there. And ⁓ they said, Hey, we, just, it's just not for us right now. ⁓ And Lily was eight months old at the time. ⁓ And so very similar parking lot story that night we.
Andrew Tiu (33:2.875)
Wow. ⁓
Nate Klein (33:30.083)
go and figure out our house. And then we meet a lawyer in the parking lot at Coral Ridge ⁓ to sign over custody papers. ⁓ And 20 hours after we got the call, we, sorry, large mall, Coral Ridge Mall. ⁓ Yes. ⁓
Andrew Saunders (33:39.249)
Rural Ridge is a large mall in the area. For those of you who live outside of Iowa, ⁓ it's got a skating rink inside and a whole super target. Like it's giant. ⁓
Andrew Tiu (33:48.685)
You
Nate Klein (33:48.897)
And a Target. So it's a similar Target parking lot story. ⁓ So we went in there, met the lawyer of my now sister-in-law's grandfather, and we picked up these custody papers ⁓ and we drive over to Washington, Iowa, an hour away, and ⁓ we bring Lily home. she, I mean, similar to probably Josh, your experience, like all of her belongings ⁓ fit in a plastic bag. ⁓ And I think it was like one change of clothes ⁓ and a newborn nipple.
Josh (34:13.880)
Yeah. Yep. Lots of bags.
Nate Klein (34:18.061)
which she was eight months at the time. ⁓ And that was hard. ⁓ So ⁓ we stayed in, she's in an open adoption. So we stayed in touch with the birth mom and the birth dad was great. He was doing as much as he could, but just couldn't. ⁓ So you've got like a Facebook page that I post every now and again, and those three are members of it. So I update pictures and we visited for the first couple of years fairly regularly, and then it's just kind of fallen off. ⁓
And then we continued the international process. And so a few months, this was in 2016 when Lily joined the family. ⁓ And then later that fall, we got a call from our international agency out of Ethiopia and said, Hey, we've got a match for you, but ⁓ you can't come over here for at least a year. ⁓ So there's this child, right? There's this child and you need to, if you want to adopt, you need to financially support her.
Josh (35:7.448)
Whoa.
Nate Klein (35:14.073)
Um, so you send money every month and supporter in this orphanage in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. And a year goes by and we get pictures. We actually blow them up and put them on cardboard. So Lily's like walking around with her sister in the house, which is hilarious and awesome. Lily is just turned a year when we got matched with Ellery. And so then we, um, probably October of 2017, we get a call mid October and said, Hey,
Josh (35:29.346)
That's awesome.
Andrew Saunders (35:30.221)
How old is Lily at this point?
Andrew Saunders (35:35.109)
Okay.
Nate Klein (35:44.215)
You need to be in Ethiopia in a couple of weeks. ⁓ This is when it's going down. ⁓ And so we packed up our stuff. ⁓ Grandparents took care of Lillian. ⁓ We could have been there for anywhere from five days to a month. Like they couldn't tell us how long it was going to be. ⁓ And so we go there on the ⁓ second day we get there and ⁓ Jenny's youngest sister came with us because it was an adventure and she wanted to be our photographer. ⁓ And so we get there and we meet Ellery the next day.
Kadanmuret orphanage and she kind of, the sisters that are running it walk her through the door and there's, there's kits everywhere. And she walks through and she's just got this really ⁓ measured smile. And we see her for the first time. It's just, it was magic. Cause we'd seen pictures of her for a year, right? ⁓ And so we go through a bunch of paperwork and she had, but I don't know if she's
Andrew Saunders (36:32.047)
And ⁓ she had seen pictures of you like you were cringing back and forth. Okay.
Nate Klein (36:38.125)
I don't know what the connection was or how often they were able to see it because she spent a lot of time in the crib. ⁓ And so we were, we were luckily only over there for about a week before we came back home. And so, yeah, she, she joined her family a year later. And then when she was 14 months old is when we got to bring her home. And then God has a sense of humor. And then we had a kid of our own. ⁓ So ⁓ we had, we had, we had put that off the rails.
Andrew Saunders (37:1.809)
⁓ good for you.
Andrew Tiu (37:5.440)
There you go.
Nate Klein (37:6.497)
And then a COVID baby, Tobin, who just turned four. And then ⁓ I was good, by the way. I was good after two. I was good after two. And then I was good after three, but my wife was like, well, that's not a round number. ⁓ We need another one. ⁓ So we started the adoption process again. Yeah. Uh-huh.
Andrew Tiu (37:8.915)
Wow, man.
Andrew Saunders (37:10.797)
Wow. ⁓
Josh (37:14.904)
Yeah. ⁓
Andrew Saunders (37:22.235)
So it's a female thing. My wife did that. Yeah. Maybe I don't want that one to be a middle child. ⁓ Can we get through the third one first? Yeah.
Andrew Tiu (37:22.738)
⁓ boy. ⁓
Nate Klein (37:28.867)
Bingo. ⁓ Yeah. So yeah, we, so we did private adoption, international adoption, and then we did a domestic adoption ⁓ where you put, it was like a more standard adoption. And Josh, I don't know if you all did this, but we put together like a Shutterfly book of like how cool a family we are, but try to be humble enough where it wasn't like over the top. ⁓ and these birth mothers look at these ⁓ Shutterfly family books and they pick the family based on that. ⁓
Josh (37:44.814)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. ⁓ Yes.
Nate Klein (37:58.059)
And so we, we synced up with an agency out of ⁓ Florida. ⁓ And then we got a call in ⁓ the summer of 2022 to ⁓ meet Diana. ⁓ And so we flew down and the whole family went down to Tampa, Florida. And we all met Diana ⁓ with one year old Tobin and the two older girls in tow. And then in October, we got a call that she went a month early. And so we drove through the night to Tampa and Riggs joined our family when he was two days old. ⁓ And so.
Andrew Saunders (38:27.474)
Wow.
Nate Klein (38:28.577)
And now we're both like, I was good after two and three and now we are good after four. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it was, it was really interesting here. So we've got not only international, we've got a transracial adoption. Two of our kiddos don't look like we do ⁓ navigating a bunch of different things. ⁓ Ethiopia no longer does international adoptions. Ellery was one of the last 50 kiddos to be adopted from Ethiopia. So there's.
Andrew Saunders (38:32.434)
⁓ We ⁓ are good.
Josh (38:34.305)
Yeah
Andrew Tiu (38:54.455)
Mmm.
Andrew Saunders (38:55.643)
Wow.
Nate Klein (38:56.793)
There's just so many things like Josh, I'm sure it's same experience. Like how do we make sure that they still have the identity from before? But yeah, all of ours, all of ours were wildly different ⁓ in all of their, how they joined the family ⁓ and all the blessing and ⁓ chaos all at the same time.
Andrew Tiu (39:7.446)
Mmm.
Andrew Saunders (39:15.214)
Absolutely amazing. ⁓
Josh (39:16.129)
Are guys pretty open with them ⁓ about adoption? ⁓
Nate Klein (39:22.093)
Yeah, fortunately, a couple of them, like you look at them, they're like, ⁓ that's probably not your birth child. like, that's, that's not. so, but yeah. So Lillian, we've been very open since they get talking about that too.
Josh (39:26.604)
Remember ⁓ yeah ⁓ What happened to these two
Andrew Tiu (39:35.415)
You know. ⁓
Josh (39:38.657)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Saunders (39:39.954)
Interesting. ⁓
Josh (39:41.380)
Yeah, that's kind of, mean, you know, our kids obviously knew that they weren't,
Andrew Tiu (39:42.359)
⁓ I think the... ⁓
Andrew Saunders (39:46.002)
⁓ We got two on a delay, think he's got a question.
Josh (39:48.522)
We had some cross though.
Andrew Tiu (39:50.742)
Yeah, no, I'm sorry. Yeah, I know. I apologize for the delay. I've been having a hard time trying to figure out like, wait, how far of a delay am I at right now? But no, I think it's actually this whole conversation has been extremely insightful and fascinating, ⁓ especially to guys who might be on the precipice of going down a similar path as you guys. ⁓ Ultimately, it's adoption in two different ways. ⁓ if ⁓ for anyone who is kind of curious or about to step forward, I'm wondering if you can like
provide a little bit of insight ⁓ on ⁓ general timeframe, ⁓ because I think ⁓ from the sound of it, it is way more costly and way more ⁓ like the timeline for beginning to end is way longer than you would have initially expected. So if you were to kind of set a ballpark, and I know that so many scenarios are different, but if you should ballpark it and set expectations for anyone who's about to go down this path, what would you say would be a rough
Timeline to expect you know, what would the process be from this point to this point to get the license and then to ultimately have the you know achieve that goal of ⁓ you know, having a ⁓ having a baby or a new ⁓ member of the family
Andrew Saunders (41:2.076)
creating a family.
Nate Klein (41:7.043)
Josh, wanna talk foster first?
Josh (41:8.324)
⁓ Yeah, ⁓ sure. For us, ⁓ so it was a year process to get licensed. I think we probably could have done it in six months, but life gets in the way. ⁓ A year to get licensed, and then it ⁓ was probably about nine months when we got the kids. So for us, it's a little bit different because working through the foster system, like Nate said earlier in the conversation, ⁓ the number one goal
in foster care is reunification of the family. ⁓ And so, ⁓ you know, for anybody who's listening, if you're going down that route, you have to understand that. We got into this situation knowing that we want to do it adopt. But we also knew that it might take, you know, it might take a couple ⁓ different ⁓ batches of kids or however you want to say it before you get ones that come up for adoption. So ⁓ ours with the foster.
you know, they're trying to get, ⁓ at first they were trying to get the kids back with mom. And ⁓ that is a very rough process to be a part of, especially if bio parents are not, ⁓ don't ever want to say anything bad about, you know, these people, ⁓ but they weren't doing what they are supposed, the state imposes things that they have to do to get their children back. ⁓
Nate Klein (42:14.722)
Yeah.
Nate Klein (42:33.187)
Mm-hmm.
Josh (42:34.806)
And that's based on each individual. ⁓ And we've got to go to court every month or two. And I got to go in court and listen to everything that happens and ⁓ listen ⁓ to mom talk about why she hasn't. The judges are very ⁓ matter of fact. like how come you're not doing this? What are your reasons? How can we help? ⁓ And you got to just listen. ⁓
⁓ A ⁓ silent partner. ⁓ And we did that for ⁓ a year and a half. Yeah, for a year and a half we did that before they came up for adoption. They went through mom and mom finally lost all her chances to get him back and then they tried to work with dad and he ⁓ lost all his chances. And it's sad, it's sad to watch. ⁓ You know, we wanted
the kids ⁓ but you know these kids love their parents and their kids don't the kids don't understand they don't know ⁓ what's going on they don't know why they're not with their parents and ⁓ you know you can't be like well you're not with your parents because they suck you know you can't say that to them ⁓ the case that's the case sometimes
Andrew Saunders (43:55.986)
They don't understand at that point how the adult choices affect them.
Josh (44:1.464)
But all they know is that they love their parents. And so we ⁓ tried real hard to just make sure and support that. And that's real hard. That's real hard to watch people who seemingly don't care about these little people who ⁓ love unconditionally these people. And that's hard to watch. I ⁓ would say of all the things, the hardest thing, that was it. To have to be part of that.
Nate Klein (44:23.331)
Hope.
Josh (44:31.076)
that experience seeing just somebody not care for a gift that you didn't get to have. That's hard. That's hard.
Nate Klein (44:39.981)
Yeah, that I think that's part of the toughest thing for us to like Lillian was the third.
Josh (44:45.272)
Yeah. And it's like, they deserve.
Yeah, go ahead.
Nate Klein (44:50.935)
I was just going to say Lillian was a third of ⁓ birth moms, kiddos to be put up for adoption. And, you know, we're, here trying to have kids and, and that's what's tough. so two to your question, all of ours were very different. So ⁓ six, probably four to six months for a home study. If anyone's looking at this process, I think the first thing to do is make that decision between foster and straight to adopt. And if it's adoption, work with a social worker, ⁓ connect with a social worker for the home study.
Josh (45:11.406)
Mm-hmm.
Josh (45:19.353)
Yeah.
Nate Klein (45:19.917)
And the home study will include like people coming out to your house to visit, make sure you have a safe home. They'll dive into your financial records. ⁓ like legit, we took a 90 question psychological assessment. ⁓ They'll have references for family members and friends ⁓ and all good things. Like we checked out, which is good. ⁓ But then it's like, which path do you go down? So if you're super open about who you are, ⁓
Or if you've ever watched the movie Juno, like if you put yourself out there, there are people looking to connect with people for private adoptions and those can go really fast. mean, Lillian joined our family in 20 hours. ⁓ but that was about a year and a half after we started the process. International adoptions there are, we wanted to have, ⁓ on the flip side of what Josh and your family wanted to do, we wanted to have babies. Like we wanted to ⁓ grow up with them and see them.
Andrew Tiu (46:1.081)
Mm.
Nate Klein (46:14.519)
And so international adoptions, there's fewer and fewer international, ⁓ just countries open to international adoption. More of them are saying, hey, we want our kiddos to be adopted within country. ⁓ so, ⁓ so talking with a social worker, so that process was a year and a half. ⁓ I mean, we started it ⁓ in 2015 and Ellery joined our family in 2017. ⁓ And then ⁓ the private or I guess the. ⁓
Adoption through an agency was probably about a year long process too, where you'd submit ⁓ who you are, what your family's all about, and a birth parent would pick you from there. ⁓ anywhere from 20 hours to two years, ⁓ but that home study process is the first part of it, where connecting with a social worker. they've got a lot of resources as well, like, do you want to adopt in state? you want open or closed, depending on your state? ⁓ And they can connect to you in that way. ⁓
That's the advice that I give ⁓ to a lot of people that we've opened up to and that have heard our story and we'd share about it as well. And ⁓ from the finance perspective, I think I said this before, anywhere from $10,000 to $60,000 is kind of the outlay ⁓ of the cost. ⁓ A great investment ⁓ in the family, but still significant.
Andrew Saunders (47:34.580)
Just for our listeners out there if you leave a comment on YouTube or shoot us a message on Instagram or If you join the discord and hang out I will make sure that Nate and Josh get your questions And get you some answers whether it comes back direct from them or you go through us if you have questions I I Pretty sure these guys would be more than happy to help answer them as long as there aren't 10,000 of them at once, right? Anyway, I we're coming up on 45 minutes here
Nate Klein (47:55.673)
Yeah, for sure.
⁓ For sure.
Josh (47:58.711)
Absolutely.
Andrew Saunders (48:4.583)
Great topic, thank you. ⁓ Nate, I told you I'd give you a little bit of a chance because this whole thing came across because Ellery, right, had an amazing idea. And so I want you to tell that story and kind of give the gist and show off what you got here. ⁓ you'll find links to these things in the description. And then if you're on YouTube, you'll get to see some pre-shots here. ⁓
Nate Klein (48:33.281)
I think one of the beautiful things about adoption is being able to be open with your kids about the story ⁓ and helping them understand their story. And I've got a really creative oldest daughter, Lillian, and she's really into reading and writing. And one day she came out of her room, she said, dad, I want to write a book. And I don't know about y'all as dads, but the first thing I'm like, cool, here's some paper, like get at it. ⁓ Cool. We'll staple it. It'll be cool. Like the things. And she said, no dad, I want to write a book like that goes into a library or on a bookshelf. It's like, awesome.
Andrew Saunders (48:53.661)
Yeah.
Josh (48:55.524)
you
Nate Klein (49:2.873)
What do want to write about? And she's like, I want to write about my adoption story. And I, I lost it. Like I was just floored and I was like, absolutely. I mean, who's going to say no to that? At that point, I'm like on a move mountains to figure out how to do this thing. Um, and so we started talking about it and a few, thought, okay, maybe does she want to do this? Not. And then she started drawing some pictures. And so we started to come up with some concepts and, uh, she has this stuffed animal that is a lion.
Andrew Saunders (49:14.183)
Right. ⁓
Nate Klein (49:30.935)
that for some reason, ever since she joined the family, she's called it Bear Bear, Bear Bear the lion. And so we're like, okay, let's talk about your stuffy. And so we got together and wrote this book ⁓ called Bear Bear the lion. ⁓ And ⁓ it is kind of her adoption story of how as a lion cub, her dad ventured out to one of her friends and ⁓ found a slew of bears, which I've learned a lot about bear packs, by the way, they're called a slew. ⁓ And
And we wrote this story about this lion cub that got adopted by a slew of bears. And we did some rhyming and we had some fun with it. And it's, ⁓ geared towards children to kind of broach the topic of adoption. And then we thought like AI, we're gonna, we're gonna create the imagery. I don't know if any of y'all have tried to create art with AI, but like you have to be an artist to use AI. And so we weren't that. So we got connected to a local high school student who ⁓ is like an up and coming artist. And we worked with Amaya.
Andrew Saunders (50:17.715)
You
Nate Klein (50:29.913)
And Amaya created all the imagery and did an amazing job. And so put together a book and then I've never published before and it's a ridiculous industry to get into. And so I didn't get into it to make a million bucks, but rather tell and help my daughter tell her story. And so we published it on Amazon and launched it on her ninth birthday. And she's sold 400 or so copies of her book, which has been great. It was like Amazon number one bestseller.
Andrew Tiu (50:59.874)
Wow, man.
Nate Klein (51:0.077)
I didn't necessarily need to dive into it was like Amazon, number one bestseller of children's book, focus on family and adoption, this very specific thing, but it still counts, right? ⁓ So, ⁓ so then ⁓ when you do that.
Andrew Saunders (51:9.917)
Counts, counts.
Josh (51:11.649)
Absolutely.
Andrew Saunders (51:13.309)
So what I'm hearing listeners is we need to double those sales, right? Get out there, click the link, buy these books.
Nate Klein (51:16.481)
Yeah, I think that'd great. Buy the books. ⁓ So it's a great holiday gift. is. It has opened up so many doors for conversations with families that have never talked about adoption because it's never impacted them. And I had pictures and videos from friends and family. Like their kids were like, ⁓ why would this happen? Like what happened to Bear Bear? Like, do her parents not love her? And to Josh's point, like, no, the birth parents can still love the kid. And.
realized the best situation for them is another family. So then I ⁓ set myself a precedent. Now my other daughter's like, well, when am I going to write my book? ⁓ so ⁓ then we, came up with a new twist and this past year when she turned nine, she, has a favorite animal, a red panda. ⁓ And so ⁓ red pandas are all sorts of different colors. And part of what she's tried to figure out is she's often the only ⁓ young black girl in most of the situations she's in because we live in small town, Iowa.
And so ⁓ this is a story about kindness and a red panda being, ⁓ she said, dad, want, I want the red panda to be adopted by polar bears. was like, cool. Why is that? ⁓ She's like, well, you love polar bears and you and mom are white. was like, you're not wrong. ⁓ You're not wrong. ⁓ So yeah, we've got this, ⁓ another beautiful story of ⁓ a red panda being adopted in the Himalayan mountains by a pack of polar bears and ⁓ Lily makes a comeback tour. So it's.
Andrew Saunders (52:30.855)
Check.
Josh (52:35.106)
That's awesome.
Nate Klein (52:45.931)
It has been such an amazing process. for anyone, like you don't have to publish it, but to talk with your kiddos about their story and how they came to the family and came to be a part of it. now these, like each of these girls launched their books in front of a crowd of 50 to 75 people. And they read it in front of them, which at nine years old, that's, that was really awesome experience. And ⁓ they get to share it with their friends and family. And ⁓ so it's, it's been a really cool, and then we get to go to farmers markets and
and sell it and they get to pull people in and they were walking around trying to peddle their wares ⁓ with people in Santa up there too. So it's just been a really cool experience.
Andrew Saunders (53:23.027)
They were very excited to sell me their books. And then when we started talking about the podcast, the eyes got very big and they were triggered. So I hope they enjoy this. the books, they are excellent stories. Like I read them to my two year old and three year old the same night we bought them. And they were like, well, where's the next one? And I'm like, he hasn't written it yet. So yeah, it'd be a long production timeline on that one.
Nate Klein (53:25.635)
Yes. ⁓
Nate Klein (53:29.594)
yeah.
Nate Klein (53:44.185)
⁓ Yeah, my four year old's got five more years. He's got to give me a break. ⁓ That's right. That's right.
Andrew Saunders (53:53.607)
Anyway, well hey guys, thank you for taking the time to sit down with us. I know it's longer than we planned, but ⁓ I think a lot of great information out there. ⁓ And I think our listeners and other dads out there will truly appreciate this. ⁓ I'd love to have both of you back sometime if we want to recap this or if there's more specific topics or something that somebody's after. But yeah, any closing thoughts or closing words before we give it the official piece?
Nate Klein (54:23.929)
⁓ I think one thing I just have listeners remember is that, ⁓ so the adoption symbol is this, ⁓ this is really cool ⁓ right here. And so it's a triangle with a heart. ⁓ And I think a lot of times people ⁓ will forget that the birth parents, like it's a super courageous thing, even if they're in a really tough time, like Josh talked about. so remember, like we've had a lot of people say, ⁓ you are such a blessing to these kids and ⁓ same thing goes to flip. so. ⁓
The three edges of the triangle are the birth parents, the kid and the adoptive parents. And there's love throughout the whole thing. ⁓ And there's just tough situations in some of it too. So I think if people can just remember that everyone's going through some stuff and give grace and ⁓ realize everyone's got a different story.
Josh (55:8.258)
Yeah.
Andrew Saunders (55:11.508)
⁓ Nate, forgot to say your proceeds from the book go to...
Nate Klein (55:15.289)
⁓ Yeah. So the girls got to pick out ⁓ two different ⁓ local nonprofits that the proceeds go to. So 25 % of the profits ⁓ for Lillian's book, Bear Bear the Lion, go to Chelsea's Dream Foundation, which is an amazing adoption organization here in Eastern Iowa that's helped like 150 kids ⁓ join their families. And then the Colors of Kindness, Ellery's book, 25 % of that goes to the African Caribbean Heritage Camp. ⁓
camp that we go to once a year out in Denver, Colorado, ⁓ that supports transracial adoptions as well. That's been a big part of our family. So they're pretty pumped to present some checks that way.
Andrew Saunders (55:51.379)
Nice.
Nice, nice. Josh, any closing remarks?
Josh (55:59.330)
Yeah, sure, you know, as we went through our process, was ⁓ just so up and down.
you know, not knowing how it would end. ⁓ You know, and for much of the time, we thought that these kids were going back to their parents, you know. And ⁓ so when you're in a situation like mine, ⁓ you just realize that you just started a relationship with kids that you may not, you may not, you know, get to see.
⁓ fulfilled like you know they might go on and never see again and so you know that was hard that was hard to think about for myself and ⁓ I came to a really realization that I just said you know if they go back to their parents ⁓ life's still gonna be tough because they had a tough a really tough life before ⁓ if they go back and parents are doing better it's still gonna be tough ⁓ so what I immediately
⁓ kind of right away started doing with these kids is ⁓ just teaching them how strong they are, how much strength that they all have within them that regardless of what happens in the future, they're capable of pushing through to better things. so ⁓ I just think that's something that not only the kids that I had helped them, but I think all kids that
We're all going to have these rough times in our life, no matter ⁓ where we're from, how our family gets started. But ⁓ teach your kids to be resilient is what I'd say. Make sure they're strong. Make sure they have adversity in their life and that they have the skills ⁓ to push through that adversity and know that there's good things on the other side. And one of my favorite quotes ⁓ is, ⁓ it's kind of a little weird, but it says, never mistake.
Josh (58:2.624)
local cloud cover for ⁓ general darkness. Clouds shift and move and sometimes they hide the sun, but as soon as it shifts, ⁓ the sun's back. ⁓ And it was dark for a minute, but it doesn't matter. So ⁓ what we've really tried to teach with these kids is just like, it's okay that life sucks sometimes, because it's going to get better tomorrow. If it's not tomorrow, it'll be the next day. ⁓
I just think resilience is something that we all need more of in our lives. that's what I would say. And ⁓ yeah, anybody who's looking in the foster system ⁓ has any questions, reach out. I'd love to help. ⁓
Andrew Saunders (58:50.292)
⁓ Thanks, guys. All right, well, Mr. Tu, I'm going to leave it to you to sign us off and give us ⁓ the last goodbye for the night.
Nate Klein (58:52.089)
Thank you.
Andrew Tiu (59:2.491)
⁓ Well, ⁓ I'm so sorry to everyone for just how much of a delay I've been on. ⁓ But ⁓ I do want to thank Josh and Nate for taking the time to come on and open up on topic that ⁓ is is not ⁓ is seldom opened up on and seldom talked about. So ⁓ thank you, gentlemen. ⁓ Fun being back on. ⁓ Hopefully I can catch up with you, Mama and Ben. ⁓ Yeah, ⁓ so. ⁓
Andrew Saunders (59:27.860)
You're always welcome.
Andrew Tiu (59:32.827)
Yeah, cooking up some short form content on the DadVerb Instagram. So ⁓ fun stuff coming up, because I got the itch to build out some videos. yeah. Anyway, thank you Josh. Thank you Nate. Thank you for the invite Saunders. And ⁓ we'll be back with another episode of the DadVerb podcast coming up soon. So thank you and be safe guys. Take care.
Nate Klein (59:52.793)
Thank you.
Andrew Saunders (59:54.325)
Thank
