00:00:02:12 - 00:00:14:11
Andrew Saunders
Welcome in to the dad for podcast topics around parenting from the lens of a D&D.
00:00:14:13 - 00:00:27:10
Ben Brown
Hey everybody, welcome into episode two of the D&D Verb Podcast. I am your host. Well, one of your hosts. Then we have on the line Mama and Andrew Saunders. Welcome everybody because.
00:00:27:10 - 00:00:29:02
Andrew Saunders
Everybody deals are going.
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Muamer Razic
Good, good.
00:00:31:03 - 00:00:54:09
Ben Brown
We are doing episode two of the revamped, revitalized, re Brought to Life D&D podcast. And today we're going to talk about a topic that we have discussed in a previous episode. But we're going to get some new voices, some new angles, maybe some new thoughts around the dreaded words. Two words we all hate to hear. Well, we don't really hate to hear them.
00:00:54:09 - 00:01:11:21
Ben Brown
We're parents that live in the real world. But it's screen time, right? It's something that's got kind of a really bad rap over the last several years, as more and more studies have come out and we understand more and more about the effects of screen time on kids. I don't know about you guys, but I'm a I'm a millennial.
00:01:11:21 - 00:01:36:13
Ben Brown
I'm 38. I parents that worked and screen time was a pretty regular thing for me. But now we know a little bit more. We've learned a little bit more about the impact of screen time and especially, you know, what we call our, I don't know, garbage screen time, right? Bad shows on your kids, their behavior, impact on their weight, their overall health, all kinds of stuff.
00:01:36:13 - 00:01:54:10
Ben Brown
So we're going to look at it from a couple of different angles and just discuss not only what some of the data has to say, but what the experience of screen time is in real life. And maybe some of the things we do to combat that or not in our lives. Right? We're all realistic. We're all dads that live in the real world.
00:01:54:10 - 00:02:12:16
Ben Brown
We all have stuff we need to do house chores, dishes, and sometimes your kids are under your feet and putting on a screen is, It's helpful for all of our sanity. So before we get into that, we got to do a quick check. So, Sanders, you want to go first?
00:02:12:18 - 00:02:31:19
Andrew Saunders
Yeah, I'm just had something to say. Yeah, I'm laughing at how much you're like. I really want to say screen time is bad. And then I'm also saying I use screen time because I don't have another app. Like, I just the the dichotomy is just making me chuckle. Sick. Check. All right. We're good now. Runny noses have stopped for the most part.
00:02:31:19 - 00:02:41:17
Andrew Saunders
There are no SIM cards in our noses anymore. All nasal passages are clean and flowing, freely with oxygen. This week.
00:02:41:18 - 00:02:44:16
Ben Brown
Awesome. Mom or sick? Check out how the kids.
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Muamer Razic
Thankfully, everyone is still in the green and in the clear.
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Ben Brown
Awesome. Same here. That is, two episodes, two separate weeks in a row that everybody has been healthy.
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Andrew Saunders
We did. So we'll.
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Ben Brown
See what.
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Andrew Saunders
That we can put up like two weeks. I know, I know.
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Ben Brown
Two, two days without a work related accident.
00:03:05:01 - 00:03:08:00
Andrew Saunders
Yeah. All right.
00:03:08:02 - 00:03:27:12
Ben Brown
Well, awesome, guys. Well, we're going to hop into our topic, but before we do, I've got a couple of stats that I pulled together around screen time just to set the context and understand kind of what our conversation is about. Right? Like, we know screen time has really kind of been more or less vilified right over the last couple of years.
00:03:27:14 - 00:03:46:23
Ben Brown
I think it really started off in the kind of, crunchy, probably the crunchy moms phase of like, don't put your kids in front of screens, don't raise an iPad, kid. But there are some real world effects, on kids when they're using screens consistently. And I know that that's that's kind of our experience at home.
00:03:46:23 - 00:04:11:09
Ben Brown
That's something that we've, you know, struggled with just in our parenting journey is how much do we let our kids access screens? Because even for us, and this was surprising for me, our son started kindergarten this year. And they all got Chromebooks. So our five year old has his own computer that he uses for. Yes. Yeah. It's why I didn't think they were going to get them, but, yeah, they all have Chromebooks.
00:04:11:09 - 00:04:44:06
Ben Brown
They use them for homework and games and it's mostly learning stuff, but it is an additional screen. Right. So just a couple of quick stats here, right? Children, aged 8 to 18 in the US spend an average of about 7.5 hours on screens. That's between TVs, smartphones, computers, tablets, and among those kids aged 6 to 14, the average daily screen time is about three hours, and about 46% have at least, two hours of screen time a day.
00:04:44:08 - 00:05:05:03
Ben Brown
And for kids that are younger than two, about 25% of them meet the guidelines for zero screen time. So really, they shouldn't be getting any screen time at all. According to, I believe, the American Academy of Pediatrics and some other research that's come out in terms of how it impacts, their overall cognitive function, their behavior, their weight management and their activity.
00:05:05:05 - 00:05:25:17
Ben Brown
And speaking of weight, a study found that children spending two or more hours on screens had a 42% greater risk of being overweight. So. Right, we have all these stats. We've got all these facts and figures that say screen time is bad, screen time is bad. You shouldn't let your kids have screens, especially under a certain age.
00:05:25:19 - 00:05:52:21
Ben Brown
But again, we all live in the real world. We're all grown ups, we all have limited time. And let's be honest, mental capacity sometimes to deal with our kids. And every now and then a screen is going to help us, get the things done that we need to do. And to be honest, I think I'm of the opinion that I think screen time can be a good thing in certain situations or in certain scenarios.
00:05:52:23 - 00:06:14:06
Ben Brown
It can be a tool to connect with your kids. But I want to bring it back to you guys. Right? So, you know, we have screens in our house, we've got TVs in every room. We all have smartphones and tablets and all that. But Saunders, I want to start with you. So your kids are relatively young. I know, you know, you're a big movie guy.
00:06:14:06 - 00:06:35:01
Ben Brown
Big movie buff. Okay. And that's been one of the things that you've really connected with your kids through. So what are your thoughts on screen time? Kind of. When did you start allowing them to be around screens or watching TV or shows? And then we'll, we'll kind of get into like the impacts or behavioral stuff a little bit later in the episode.
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Andrew Saunders
When did I, I mean, to be perfectly honest, right? They've been in front of screens from the moment they came from from the hospital. I mean, I've, I've talked about that before. I've been holding them and we were watching shows at night. Now, whether or not they were watching, whether or not they were able to focus on the screen, who knows?
00:06:53:21 - 00:07:23:04
Andrew Saunders
But I mean, I think my eldest watched like an entire season of Law and Order SVU with me, but before she was a year old. Right. And so, like, if there's trauma coming, I know where it's from. Okay. But the first time we did is we did Blippi. YouTube and my wife got to the point where she couldn't handle Blippi anymore because he, he invoked too much movement and the like.
00:07:23:06 - 00:07:56:23
Andrew Saunders
The point was for them to kind of settle down and learn something and. Right. Blippi is great for explore your world and kind of getting kids to figure that out in my opinion. But at some point he is just an energizer. He is not teaching them anymore. And I want to say like the second kids always, always got the short end of that stick because the first you're like doing stuff for the oldest and the second kids just like tagging along.
00:07:56:23 - 00:08:25:21
Andrew Saunders
So she definitely got screen time a lot younger. But, I don't look at the we have one TV in our household, one it's in the living room, and it basically goes, whatever. Dad's watching, everybody's watching, whatever mom's watching, everybody's watching. The girls don't get a choice unless that her mom aren't watching the TV. And they don't really asked for shows, or they didn't until maybe three months ago.
00:08:25:23 - 00:08:54:08
Andrew Saunders
Now that now they know, like Paw Patrol exists. They know Spider-Man exists. The eldest does. My youngest doesn't ask for shows yet. What I consider screen time are these little guys, right? IPads, phones, stuff like that. We did not do any kind of interactive touch screen stuff until, our daughter was ready for preschool, and so she was two years, six months.
00:08:54:10 - 00:09:17:03
Andrew Saunders
And I went on I downloaded ABC mouse, and she plays ABC mouse on her phone or on her iPad, with her headphones on, 30, 40 minutes. And she made it all the way through preschool stage 2 or 3. Before she kind of was like, okay, I'm done. Like, that's cool. But she actually disengaged from it herself.
00:09:17:06 - 00:09:39:22
Andrew Saunders
I didn't like it just wasn't entertaining for her anymore. The younger one, we started trying to do the toddler stuff, but again, she wasn't interested in it. So I think for us, screen time is an I don't look at it as like I spend more time staring at a screen than they do. So I don't think it's an issue.
00:09:40:00 - 00:10:09:17
Andrew Saunders
As much as the world wants people to think, as long as your kids have other sources of entertainment, like they are more likely to pick up their Magna tiles, or build their fort, or build the wooden train, or play with their Duplo than they are to just sit in front of a show. That being said, less than two hours ago, after dinner, they were sat down in front of the magic school bus and one of them fell asleep within the first episode, and the other one sat there quietly and watched it for two episodes while we visited.
00:10:09:19 - 00:10:11:14
Andrew Saunders
And then it was, okay, it's bedtime, right?
00:10:11:14 - 00:10:13:18
Ben Brown
So yeah.
00:10:13:19 - 00:10:19:18
Andrew Saunders
I don't know, like I use it and I use it as a tool, but I don't use it as a babysitter. Does that make sense?
00:10:19:19 - 00:10:23:22
Ben Brown
Yeah, no, that makes sense. Mom, what about you?
00:10:24:00 - 00:10:47:16
Muamer Razic
Yeah, I was gonna say, I think the key distinction there is the screen of the TV versus the screen of, like, a phone or tablet. I had a stat to. So in 2000, 98% of households owned at least one TV, which I don't think that's changed. So like, yeah, the screens have always been around. And I think it's that in the age of social media especially, we're talking about it more.
00:10:47:18 - 00:11:20:05
Muamer Razic
And the key is in my mind, it's not necessarily the experience of the TV because that's a shared experience, right? He talked about Sandra's like the guy sitting there together watching a movie or just having it be a a community and a family thing versus something like a phone or an iPad that is a purely individualistic experience. And I think that's when the toddlers and the babies, anyone using it and that kid age, it becomes a I have control, I tell you that.
00:11:20:06 - 00:11:48:22
Muamer Razic
And like it's just a different mindset versus like mom or dad is watching this. And with our kids, we can, I would say probably like 6 to 12 months. And, we did start with Miss Rachel, you know, the quintessential type of experience. And, maybe 1 or 2 others I can't remember. But as they've gotten a little bit older, especially now, my three year old, even the two and a half year old will ask for like, Spidey or Wild Kratts.
00:11:49:00 - 00:12:06:01
Muamer Razic
And sometimes they'll wake up in the morning and we have, like, we're making breakfast and it's it's a like a Saturday morning cartoon kind of day. But we let them know that, like, hey, it's it's not Spidey. It's it's a little bear or it's a while, it's something a little bit more relaxing. And it's because there's definitely a difference in the type of shows and what to watch.
00:12:06:03 - 00:12:30:18
Muamer Razic
Number of blocks is a huge one. And so for, for us, it's really about like that collective experience and using it as a way to get them to engage and to learn and to just know that there's a difference between watching the screen for entertainment and watching screen for educational purposes in this instance. And we typically only do iPads if we're traveling, when we're on somewhere, like we're the routines gone.
00:12:30:18 - 00:12:45:10
Muamer Razic
So it it's seen as like a reward. It's like if we're going on a plane on a long car ride, that's when they get it. And it's unders were close to you, I would say, like, we really only have one TV in the house. I have one in my office, but that's just for me to work. No one else uses that so similar kind of thing.
00:12:45:10 - 00:13:06:16
Muamer Razic
It's it's a living room and that's what everybody uses. But I am also 100% in the camp of I think I'm the one with the screen problem. And so that's why when these conversations happen, yes, it resonates so much with people because they feel so strongly about it. I mean, if I just go in now and look at my screen time and kind of.
00:13:06:18 - 00:13:09:10
Andrew Saunders
Just do this grab on my phone to be like, how bad am I?
00:13:09:12 - 00:13:20:17
Muamer Razic
I mean, yeah, the last week, my daily average is six hours and two minutes. And I know there's a mix between like work and not work, but still like six hours a day on the plus a lot. And that's just looking.
00:13:20:17 - 00:13:21:18
Andrew Saunders
At your phone.
00:13:21:20 - 00:13:38:04
Muamer Razic
Yeah. That's not including the computer. Yeah. It's so I think that's that's where parents and people will get so opinionated about this is we also realize we're probably the problem without saying it, and then trying to figure out how to balance that.
00:13:38:06 - 00:14:07:13
Andrew Saunders
I, I actually I left Facebook for almost eight weeks straight this summer because I popped open screen time one night and I was like, okay, let's just look at it. I had spent three hours that day on Facebook, and I know I was scrolling reels the whole time, three hours doing this. And that was the moment where I'm like, nope, this, this has to stop.
00:14:07:15 - 00:14:28:00
Andrew Saunders
And so I just I literally went in and deleted the Facebook app from my phone. I actually did it. I have a friend who would have just tried to murder me for saying literally what I meant. Actually, I actually went in and deleted the Facebook app on my phone. I deleted, I didn't delete Instagram because we were still using it for some of this stuff.
00:14:28:01 - 00:14:52:16
Andrew Saunders
It dropped immediately. It I was amazed at like the the way my brain changed almost right away. And it was all about that scroll. And what I found myself doing was, I like I would open LinkedIn to, to get the fix on scroll. And I'm like, no, no. Like I noticed I was searching it out right. It was it was really weird.
00:14:52:18 - 00:15:13:19
Andrew Saunders
And so again, when I, when I brought Facebook back to my phone, I put a 30 minute timer on it. It locks and it tells me it's like, hey, you've been doing this for 30 minutes, so you want to stop? And I'm like, yes, yes, I do. Thank you. So for like adulting me properly and yeah, I think we as parents have the responsibility to protect our kids from that.
00:15:13:20 - 00:15:18:13
Andrew Saunders
Right? It's hard when the school sends home a Chromebook, but yeah.
00:15:18:15 - 00:15:42:08
Ben Brown
Yeah, and that's, you know, we kind of manage our screen time the same way, right? Like, our kids are five and our daughter will be three in February. And they've been exposed to screens, you know, the majority of their life. We've never been real sticklers for keeping them away from it. What we are conscious of, though, is one, as you guys mentioned, right.
00:15:42:13 - 00:16:05:08
Ben Brown
There's sort of two ways that you can use screens. You can use them as a distraction, because I just need my kids to sit quietly for a minute or go play or do something while I'm in the middle of a task. The other side of that, that you guys have mentioned that I think is really good is using it as either a tool or a way to connect as a family.
00:16:05:08 - 00:16:24:11
Ben Brown
So for us, like Friday night is, you know, pizza and movie night, that's something we do every single week. We pick a movie. We all sit down and watch it together. We do our best to, you know, put our phones down, put everything away and just be engaged in whatever we're watching with the kids, asking questions, getting excited, whatever it is.
00:16:24:12 - 00:16:53:21
Ben Brown
We also try to be conscious of the types of shows that they're watching. So like, our kids don't watch Peppa Pig at all. Because, you know, she's sort of notoriously rude to her family and poorly behaved. We don't want that type of behavior reflected in our kids. So when they are watching shows, yeah, they might watch, you know, Spidey or, my sons got really into Ninja Turtles lately, so we just watch the entire, like, live action trilogy over the last couple of days.
00:16:53:23 - 00:17:18:05
Ben Brown
My son is super into Star Wars because I'm really into Star Wars. So that's something that we share. But we'll sit down and watch that together, right? I'm not just plugging him in front of the TV for four hours and just letting him watch unending episodes. And one thing I think it's important to mention, too, is there's a there's a big difference in the quality of shows.
00:17:18:07 - 00:17:37:22
Ben Brown
Yeah. So there I forgot what the website is. And if I'll look it up and try to, you know, put it in the, in the show notes, but there is a website that will tell you, you hear this term called low stimulation, right? When it comes to kids shows. So there's certain elements of shows like really high contrast colors.
00:17:37:22 - 00:18:05:10
Ben Brown
So think of like Cocomelon. It's very repetitive. There's a lot of high contrast colors. There's a lot of very quick scene changes. And what that does is it actually fires off the fight or flight response in your kids. So what I've noticed is that when my kids watch a higher stimulation show, like my son loves blaze and the Monster Machines, it's like, it's basically a Stem show, but it's again, it's a lot of high contrast.
00:18:05:12 - 00:18:32:00
Ben Brown
It's a lot of movement. It's a lot of high energy music there. If you really pay attention to your kids, their behavior changes when they watch shows that really stimulate them. And there's been a lot of research to show, like kids will actually start to self-soothe if they're watching a show that's too stimulating. So if you want, if you watch your kids, if they start to like rock back against the couch, they're actually self-soothing.
00:18:32:00 - 00:19:04:05
Ben Brown
It's a it's a soothing technique because the show is stimulating them to the point where they think they're, you know, being attacked in some way. So one of the big things we found is not only seeking out lower stimulation shows, like some of the ones we really love or, Stillwater on Apple TV, which is like, it's a super slow paced show and it's basically centered around this, like Panda that's a neighbor, and he like, meditates and teaches them all kinds of lessons about life, but they're very slow.
00:19:04:06 - 00:19:18:18
Ben Brown
Tumble leaf is another good one that we really like. For, for our kids. It's on Amazon Prime, and then we even gone back to a lot of the older shows that either I used to watch as a kid or were around when I was younger. So like Little Bear, Bear in the Big Blue House.
00:19:18:20 - 00:19:19:20
Andrew Saunders
00:19:20:22 - 00:19:21:18
Muamer Razic
We'll do a little bear.
00:19:21:21 - 00:19:23:05
Ben Brown
There's a good one shape.
00:19:23:06 - 00:19:26:10
Muamer Razic
I know. There's another good one on Netflix. It's trash truck.
00:19:26:12 - 00:19:49:11
Ben Brown
Trash truck is really solid. Yeah, trash truck is really good. It's a very kind of low stimulation show. Kind of relaxed, slower pacing. But if you watch the shows your kids are watching, you can kind of tell it's like feeding them candy, right? It's like basically mainlining sugar into their brain when they watch a high stim show. And so we do try to use it, you know, sometimes as a tool to get things done.
00:19:49:11 - 00:20:14:19
Ben Brown
But we're conscious of what we're putting on. And one of the things I do want to talk about, too, that I think is, is interesting, right, is there's a difference between watching shows, either with your kid and engaging with them and making it a like family event versus, like you said, Xander's that sort of individual, like I hand in the iPad and they can basically do whatever they want, right?
00:20:14:19 - 00:20:40:19
Ben Brown
Supervised. There is a big difference between that because it feels like there's there's the big differences. I'm either connecting with you or I'm sort of keeping you away from me. And I would assume that that leads to some sort of, you know, whether it's separation anxiety or, you know, thinking that the a show is going to soothe me, kind of that emotional relationship to the show that we want to try to avoid.
00:20:40:19 - 00:20:47:10
Ben Brown
Right? We want to make it a thing that's a privilege and not something that they just automatically get to do.
00:20:47:12 - 00:21:07:06
Andrew Saunders
Well, I mean, and I mean, I don't know about you guys, but how do I unwind at the end of the night? I plop on whatever garbage show my brain thinks is the next greatest thing, and I spend two hours like it's time to soothe Andrew's brain. Right? And here I am, three episodes deep of Below Deck, and I'm going, why am I watching this garbage?
00:21:07:06 - 00:21:32:00
Andrew Saunders
Like, why am I watching 20 somethings on a yacht bicker about who's slept with whom? Like, yeah, this is this. This is what I find relaxing, apparently. Okay. Right. Or, you know, half a dozen episodes of Gray's Anatomy on a weekend to to be like. It doesn't make sense, but it's how I was wired up as a kid that that is that is relaxing.
00:21:32:00 - 00:21:32:14
Andrew Saunders
That is.
00:21:32:19 - 00:22:07:10
Muamer Razic
Yeah, I think I think he is like, how can you find those steps in your personal life as the adult to show, like what I could do instead? I, I try to, especially at night, replace the doomscrolling and like the quick fix with, you know, throwing my AirPods in and trying to listen to an audiobook or a podcast downloaded that for a podcast and like, oh, but that's the that's what I slowly trying to shift towards because I'll find myself the same thing, like laying in bed or trying to put the kids asleep.
00:22:07:12 - 00:22:41:21
Muamer Razic
I'm just scrolling and I'm like, I, I'm not learning anything. This doesn't feel valuable. It's just rot. And I've tried to make those conscious decisions of when I can. I still find myself reaching for the phone and so scrolling sometimes, but trying to be more mindful in those situations. And even then, as you had mentioned, of like whenever you decide that it is time to have that dedicated session with family, putting the phones down, being present, because I've also found myself like when my kids are just in the room playing, if they're not watching the TV, I am the iPad kid, like I'm looking on my phone while they're just playing.
00:22:41:21 - 00:22:58:04
Muamer Razic
And I'm like, like, what are they saying? And so it's also trying to see, like, how do I change? And I get it's not about perfection. Like I'm not trying to be I'm if you a parent, I think you posted this up like it just screens are a part of daily life now. That's just how it is.
00:22:58:04 - 00:23:18:18
Muamer Razic
It's very different than how it was in something like over 80% of Americans in the US have a cell phone. Like they're just all around us. And it's not about eliminating them 100%. I know there's definitely a camp. There's like no screens at all. Get rid of everything. Yeah, but if we're being realistic, it's about balance. And I always I like the term.
00:23:18:18 - 00:23:36:08
Muamer Razic
I don't remember where I heard it, but I've always use this in my daily life. But it's progress, not perfection. Right. Like if you think you're doing better, if you're making small improvements, it's all about your perspective and your family and your situations and routines. But just try to make those incremental steps. I think that's what really matters the most.
00:23:36:10 - 00:23:58:19
Ben Brown
Yeah, it's about it is about being conscious of what your kids are seeing too. Right? You know, I think our kids are pretty good about, you know, being playing by themselves. You know, playing games. We try to make time where we're doing arts and crafts, especially on the weekends. Right? The kids are home all day.
00:23:58:19 - 00:24:19:19
Ben Brown
They're not in school. It's easy to plop them in front of the TV. It just sort of ignore that they exist. Right. And so you have to go somewhere. But I think the challenge is right, is that we we're setting that example. So like you guys said, I mean, looking at your screen time, knowing that it's too high, like I even went so far as to get like, I don't know if you guys can see this.
00:24:19:19 - 00:24:42:15
Ben Brown
This like, the brick. Yeah. The brick, because it's one of those things that like, it forces me not to be on my phone. Like it literally locks out. I set all the apps that it locks out and it shuts them out completely. I can't open them. I can't look at them. I can't even bypass it, because the only way to bypass it is you get like these.
00:24:42:17 - 00:25:03:23
Ben Brown
They call them emergency unlocks. You have to actually, you either have to use the NFC chip in your phone to unlock your phone with the brick, or if you have to like emergency unlock it, you only get four. And if you run out of the four, you actually have to call their customer service or email them to get more unlocks.
00:25:04:04 - 00:25:21:13
Ben Brown
Otherwise you're stuck. You can only unlock it with the brick itself. So for me, like even when I'm doing work, I find myself getting distracted by my phone. You pick it up, you go to look something up, and all of a sudden, you know, it's 30 minutes later and you scrolled through 100 TikToks and a couple of Instagram Reels.
00:25:21:15 - 00:25:43:18
Ben Brown
And so it kills your productivity. And again, it's what is the example that you're setting for your kids. So again, it's not about being perfect. We know we're going to pick up our phones. We know that those apps are designed to addict us to consuming content. But on the other side of it, right. Yeah. On the other side of it, we we use it for business.
00:25:43:18 - 00:26:04:21
Ben Brown
We use it for work, we use it to connect to other people. So there is a there there really should be what I think is like kind of a purpose behind it. And so when we think about screen time and how we're using it, you know, we, we touched a little bit on being intentional with your screen time.
00:26:04:23 - 00:26:15:19
Ben Brown
So when it comes to that intentionality, like where do you guys stand on trying to be either more focused or more intentional about using screens? And Saunders I'll, I'll kick it over to you.
00:26:15:21 - 00:26:41:18
Andrew Saunders
I mean, I so to go back to monitor's point about what he's been trying to do in the evening, right. I intentionally went out and bought an e-reader, like an e-ink Kindle. It wasn't a Kindle, but I bought that device specifically so that I could read books to the kids, because I knew, despite the fact that I've got a plethora of them behind me, and that wall is basically all books, the paper wasn't going to cut it.
00:26:41:18 - 00:27:09:18
Andrew Saunders
I wasn't going to sit down and read them novels and things like that, but I would sit behind an e-ink tablet and read stories to them. And so that has been useful. I made the mistake of starting two different stories as well as a third one for myself. So I am like a chapter into The Hobbit a little bit through King Arthur and The Count of Monte Cristo.
00:27:09:20 - 00:27:39:11
Andrew Saunders
Cristo. All I want to say Crisco. Like I like the counter. Like I'm making for The Count of Monte Cristo, all at the same time on this e-reader. And it's actually surprising to me how satisfying it is to read like, I always like e-ink, iPad, whatever. It's the same. And to be fair, I'm the guy who's read for novels on his iPhone, like so I could do it, but I knew that I would never be able to do that with my phone.
00:27:39:13 - 00:27:44:00
Andrew Saunders
Like I would never be able to read and read to my kids off my phone. And there's.
00:27:44:00 - 00:27:45:09
Ben Brown
Too many other distractions.
00:27:45:15 - 00:28:06:07
Andrew Saunders
Too many other distractions, too many notifications, too many emails, too many whatever. I mean, even just doing this right, I'm distracted by the fact that somebody texted me and it's floating right over there in my vision, and I keep like, so it's a great single source and I'm, I'm loving that piece of it for reading to the girls.
00:28:06:07 - 00:28:27:15
Andrew Saunders
Now they're three and two, right? I've picked stories they're not going to understand The Hobbit. I'm going to read The Hobbit like four times in my lifetime. Now, because I'm going to have to read it to them again, and I'm indoctrinating them into the right fantasy kingdom. None of this Harry Potter magic stuff that you guys all want to say is it's magic, right?
00:28:27:17 - 00:29:00:06
Andrew Saunders
Sorry. It's trigger. Anyway, so there it's that's been conscious for me. The other thing is we the girls only really watch educational kids shows at our house. So. Octonauts. Again, we talked about Blippi. We do a lot of Sesame Street because I have an HBO plus subscription, so I actually went back to, like, the 1967 episode one.
00:29:00:06 - 00:29:23:18
Andrew Saunders
Yeah, Sesame Street and hit play, which is creepy. Like, go watch that first episode. That's a no, no, no, not even that. Like within five minutes of it starting, it's a guy walking down the street. He meets a little girl, and they peep into the windows of the neighbor's house where Bert and Ernie are taking a bath like, that's the first four minutes of that episode.
00:29:23:18 - 00:29:27:22
Andrew Saunders
I'm just like, this is so inappropriate. Like what?
00:29:28:00 - 00:29:29:08
Muamer Razic
The times, different times.
00:29:29:08 - 00:29:33:09
Andrew Saunders
Different times. Right? And anyway, so we're doing a lot of sesame eating.
00:29:33:09 - 00:29:35:00
Ben Brown
Wasn't this frowned upon?
00:29:35:02 - 00:29:55:17
Muamer Razic
Right? Right. Yes. Actually, there's a there's a children's story that it's one of the children's books that my wife and I skip it. It's we really winky and it goes like, we really rinky run through the town upstairs and upstairs. Downstairs in his nightgown, rapping at the windows, looking through the locks. Are the children in the bed is past 8:00.
00:29:55:17 - 00:29:56:23
Muamer Razic
I'm like, what is this?
00:29:57:01 - 00:30:00:12
Ben Brown
Yeah, no creepy dude running in a nightgown, walking in on kids.
00:30:00:14 - 00:30:00:20
Andrew Saunders
Yeah.
00:30:01:02 - 00:30:04:03
Muamer Razic
Yep. Sorry, but it's ingrained in me.
00:30:04:06 - 00:30:39:02
Andrew Saunders
I can't go, so it's like. Yeah. What? Yeah. And so, I'm very intentional on what the kids watched out. They do watch a lot of Mickey Mouse, right? We found the Mickey Mouse, house. And, like, it's got a little house. Yeah, it's got enough good chunks that I'm happy with the fact that it is entertaining. Yeah, other than those were really Disney movies, which we can debate on whether Disney movies are good and adult stuff, like, it's stuff I'm watching.
00:30:39:07 - 00:30:40:11
Andrew Saunders
Like they things.
00:30:40:12 - 00:30:43:15
Muamer Razic
Yeah, they watch pop control when we say.
00:30:43:17 - 00:30:46:07
Andrew Saunders
Things that dad is watching.
00:30:46:09 - 00:30:47:12
Muamer Razic
There's a difference.
00:30:47:14 - 00:30:48:20
Ben Brown
It's still appropriate.
00:30:48:23 - 00:30:56:14
Muamer Razic
I'm just saying that that Saunders is going to get somebody called on him. He's got nice. Yeah, it's adult content playing it, like, come on, I'm.
00:30:56:14 - 00:30:58:03
Andrew Saunders
Friends with a little five.
00:30:58:03 - 00:31:03:08
Muamer Razic
Five. We don't want to call someone to call.
00:31:03:10 - 00:31:25:19
Andrew Saunders
But it shows. Designed for, like, the other night we were watching, the cable news, and they sat down and they watched a few minutes, and then they were like, we're not watching the news. And they went and played, right. Because it wasn't engaging. But that's what was that's what was being watched at that moment on that screen because I was following something.
00:31:25:21 - 00:31:39:19
Andrew Saunders
And, and it's intentional right now when the with grandma, they've started watching Paw Patrol and I'm like, there's nothing positive about puppet. Like what? Okay. And they like Paw Patrol because it's fun and. Right.
00:31:39:19 - 00:31:43:12
Ben Brown
But it's fun. It's bright, it moves fast. And there's loud music.
00:31:43:14 - 00:31:53:16
Andrew Saunders
Right? It engages all of those energy plays. And so they've they've started asking and I'm like, no, but it's grandma's house. Grandma can treat them to Paw Patrol like if I really care.
00:31:53:16 - 00:31:57:15
Ben Brown
About, so let them eat cookies for breakfast, which is, you know, that's what grandmas are for.
00:31:57:20 - 00:32:05:13
Andrew Saunders
She has taught them how to paint and do their letters and like, yeah, let's just patrol her. Go for it. It's all good anyway, mom.
00:32:05:15 - 00:32:16:07
Ben Brown
Or what about you? What about your, I know your kids are the youngest of the group, but, as far as, like, intentional screen time consumption, like, how do you. How do you manage that?
00:32:16:09 - 00:32:37:06
Muamer Razic
Yeah. And I think it comes down to trying to find, like, what the right moment is. And there are definitely days where I'm like, especially mornings like, kids wake up so early, they can go to bed at 11 p.m. or 6 p.m. and they will wake up at 5 to 530 in the morning every day. And so some morning is just like they're asking to watch TV and I cave.
00:32:37:06 - 00:32:53:07
Muamer Razic
I'm like, you know what? I need it. But I feel like that's okay. Again, I try to find something close, Skip, but we use it when we feel like we just either need to do something. Like just a couple hours ago, I was doing dishes at in between making dinner, put Spidey on oldest had already gone to bed.
00:32:53:07 - 00:33:17:04
Muamer Razic
The baby was still up and like hanging out for a little bit. Let me get my stuff done. And then the second piece was, again, if we're traveling like we know it's it's a break in their routine. It's a break in comfort. So we want to try to make them as comfortable as possible, because selfishly, it's also easier on us to go through that journey of going on a plane ride with kids, which I'm sure at some point we'll talk about, again on the pod.
00:33:17:06 - 00:33:42:13
Muamer Razic
But yeah, so like, we just try to find the instances of where we think it makes sense and where it's beneficial, but we also want them to understand that it is a a privilege, I guess they or but not the right. Like it's a privilege. Like we don't have to lend and watch TV. And so we are very clear because as you mentioned mean there are definitely some times where like they will watch a Blippi or we'll occasionally crop up patrol like they love the Paw Patrol movie.
00:33:42:15 - 00:34:00:18
Muamer Razic
Because they're big in the superheroes right now. So there's like a Pop Patrol superhero one. And, but there's a clear difference between that and even just like how they. Yeah, it's in the breakdown. Like they'll start whining and fussing and I'm like, nope, we're done. Like, cut it off. And I'm kind of hard and fast on that.
00:34:00:18 - 00:34:19:17
Muamer Razic
So we, we try to make the at least connection in their minds of I'm not always guaranteed to watch TV. I have to make sure I'm being good and I'm following the rules. So we try to make those correlations good again. We're not us parents. We're not going to take away TV like we like. And actually I don't wear the watch that much TV.
00:34:19:19 - 00:34:26:12
Muamer Razic
Well, kids mainly watch the TV whenever I watch football or anything else. Somehow I'm stuck watching it on my phone.
00:34:26:13 - 00:34:30:21
Andrew Saunders
But you need to try to be like I do with a TV.
00:34:30:23 - 00:34:46:17
Muamer Razic
But we try to. We try to make it clear that it's like, this is a privilege. You need to make sure you're you're acting right. You need to make sure that we're picking the right things. And we're not just writing, and we do the same thing. Like, whenever, any of the parents are watching them, it's kind of like free rein.
00:34:46:17 - 00:35:04:19
Muamer Razic
We tried even giving guidance of like, please don't do this, but at my mom's house, they'll watch this. I don't know what the show's called, but it's like a baby and a robot and there's, like, no education value here whatsoever. And I'm just I walk in and I see that our baby shark, I'm like, oh, God. Yeah.
00:35:04:19 - 00:35:24:03
Muamer Razic
Yeah. So but we do the best we can and it's again, just finding the right moments for us that we think it makes sense. But there was the reason I've tried to focus on it more is I took a note on it before we started. There was a 2022 study that I saw way back when I looked back up from the University of Calgary that interviewed 12,000 families.
00:35:24:05 - 00:35:48:19
Muamer Razic
I found that parents who reported higher phone use and higher TV use reported lower family satisfaction and perceived connection. I'm like, I don't want that to be us. Like, I like that they like watching TV and I like that. It's like a break sometimes. But I also don't want to get to the point where they're older, where there's like, tune in me out and they get these big cocomelon eyes and just want to be glued to the TV like I need to find a way to break that monotony.
00:35:48:19 - 00:35:52:01
Muamer Razic
So that's how we're doing it. But what about you, Ben?
00:35:52:03 - 00:36:16:04
Ben Brown
And I think I think that's a tough part to write like, you know, but I know because I dropped my kids off in the morning. My wife goes to work super early, works in an ICU. So it's, you know, I've got everybody in the morning. And so, you know, one of the things we've really noticed is their ability to either focus or listen or hear you or know that you exist if the TV is on.
00:36:16:06 - 00:36:33:11
Ben Brown
Yeah. So in the mornings when we're trying to get them ready, you know, my daughter goes to school a little bit later so she can watch a show after her brother's gone to school, but he's got to be at school. I mean, we leave for for kindergarten at 7:00 in the morning, so he needs to be in class by 730.
00:36:33:12 - 00:36:58:10
Ben Brown
And he's also a kid who needs a lot of sleep. So if he goes to bed at, you know, eight, eight, 30 and actually falls asleep waking up at 6 a.m. for him to get ready is is tough, right? It's tough to just get him moving, get him focus. You know, get him dressed, breakfast, all that stuff that we need to do in that what feels like a couple of minutes and really, you know, is half an hour to an hour time.
00:36:58:12 - 00:37:24:21
Ben Brown
And so we know that there are times where we just can't watch a show. There's just no way logistically that we can make it work. And then there are other times we use it as, you know, like you guys said, is either, you know, a little bit of a reward where it's like, okay, like one of the things we've started doing is they on the weekends especially, is they have to earn any time on either, an iPad, computer screen, whatever it is.
00:37:24:21 - 00:37:53:00
Ben Brown
Right. So most of the shows we watch are broken up into like, like Tumble Live is actually two episodes in one, so there's actually 15 minute episodes, so they get to watch one 15 minute episode, and then after that they have to pause the show. And if there's something that needs to be done, like picking up toys or putting their dishes away or some sort of household chore, their job is to take a break, do the chore that's being asked of them, and then they earn the next episode.
00:37:53:02 - 00:38:09:10
Ben Brown
So we're trying to tie it to if we do all the other things we need to do, then we get to watch screen time, right? Like, you know, Mom and Dad have to fold laundry before they can sit down to watch a movie or put the movie on in the background. We we have to do the same thing.
00:38:09:10 - 00:38:36:02
Ben Brown
So it's part of building that connection to the responsibility of being part of the family and knowing that the family unit is responsible for maintaining our home, keeping our stuff picked up, you know, all of that, which is it's a challenge. You don't just get to zone out and do nothing and not help with anything and not help with dishes, and not help with cleaning or not help with putting putting your clothes away.
00:38:36:02 - 00:39:07:05
Ben Brown
Those are all part of earning that that time to, you know, zone out or relax. So yeah, I think it's I think the big message here, right, is that none of us are against screen time, right? Screens exist. It's part of our life now. What we're working towards again is not perfection, but it's just doing the best we can to be conscious of what we're watching, conscious of how we're watching and how we're interacting with that device.
00:39:07:06 - 00:39:35:10
Andrew Saunders
Yeah, no, that's I mean, I know for us, a conscious choice we have made. You don't in front of the TV popcorn. Yes. Occasionally. Breakfast cereal. Snacks. Right. If dinner's going, no ones. Everybody eats dinner at the table. That's what you eat. The TV is not on right? Or if it is on, it's. You are facing away from it.
00:39:35:12 - 00:39:56:20
Andrew Saunders
And mom and dad don't eat dinner in front of the TV. Like it's a conscious decision to, like, refocus attention for that little bit of time, that 30 minutes every night. Right. And yeah, and I think that's again, I think Ben has it. That's the big message is you have to be conscious as the parent about how you're interacting with these devices.
00:39:56:22 - 00:40:03:00
Andrew Saunders
And that's the part where they become bad is if you stop, if you stop being conscious about that interaction.
00:40:03:02 - 00:40:06:01
Ben Brown
Yeah. All right. Any closing thoughts from you?
00:40:06:01 - 00:40:15:06
Muamer Razic
More I think we teed it up, man. It's it's not the goal isn't perfection. It's progress. So that's all that matters.
00:40:15:07 - 00:40:29:06
Ben Brown
Do the best you can. Survive your life sometimes. Sometimes you get us to come in front of a screen to get your stuff done. But you know what? Yeah. It's okay. We're all. We're all living in the real world, right? Nothing is perfect.
00:40:29:08 - 00:40:35:11
Andrew Saunders
And don't forget to, like, follow and subscribe. Yeah. Like, so that we show up on your screen the next.
00:40:35:11 - 00:40:56:22
Ben Brown
Absolutely. Well, thank you everybody for tuning in to this episode of the Dad podcast. If you want more, head over to, your favorite podcast platform, whether that's Spotify, Apple. Make sure you subscribe if this is the first time, here you go. So you get our episodes delivered directly to you. You can also follow us at Dad Verb podcast on Instagram.
00:40:56:22 - 00:41:10:12
Ben Brown
Will be posting more content up there as we kind of break these down into short little consumable snippets. So go doom scroll our stuff. It's actually helpful. And we will see you all in the next episode. East.
00:41:10:13 - 00:41:10:22
Muamer Razic
This.
