00:00:02:13 - 00:00:13:20
Andrew Saunders
Welcome in to the dad for podcast topics around parenting from the lens of a D&D.
00:00:13:22 - 00:00:38:01
Ben Brown
All right, welcome in, everybody, to the first episode of the new version of the D&D Verb podcast. Yes, we are back. We quit for a while, to be completely honest. So initially the last episode you guys saw from us was Thanksgiving of, gosh, probably 2024 or 2023, something like that.
00:00:38:03 - 00:00:39:23
Andrew Saunders
We have we did a February goodbye.
00:00:39:23 - 00:01:01:02
Ben Brown
Do we do February 1st? Yeah, it was a while ago. It's been it's been, you know, probably darn near close to a year since we've done a D&D for podcast. But we are back. We had not initially intended on bringing the D&D for podcast back, but we're here. Some opportunities, some new faces decided to crop up. And, we've got some renewed energy around this podcast.
00:01:01:02 - 00:01:22:10
Ben Brown
And we heard from you guys. We heard that you guys really got a lot out of this podcast when it came to fatherhood, when it came to your own parenting journey. So we thought that these are important conversations that we should continue to have. And, we're going to be having them with some new faces. So before we get into today's topic, let's go ahead.
00:01:22:10 - 00:01:42:04
Ben Brown
And first of all, let's talk about number one. How do we get back to the D&D verb podcast? But number two, who is everybody on the podcast. So you recognize my voice? My name is Ben. I've been on the D&D podcast since its inception. You also have Saunders on with us, who is also an OG here at D&D.
00:01:42:04 - 00:01:47:02
Ben Brown
Verb. And we've got a new face moment. Did I say your name right? I'm sorry.
00:01:47:04 - 00:01:58:10
Maumer Razic
I it sounds French, and I kind of like it. I know you like that. I wish it was that fancy, but it just. Mom, I know it's his dad, but it's mom or so. It's a little bit different. More you say it. The is your kids.
00:01:58:12 - 00:02:22:09
Ben Brown
All right? Perfect. So we're excited to get back to it. We've got an interesting topic today that's hopefully going to help out. Some new dads maybe some OG dads, finding ways to bond with your kids. But first of all, let's let's rewind and give the audience a little bit of context as to how we ended up bringing Resurrecting Like a Phoenix from the ashes, The Dad Verb podcast, and mom, I'll kick it over to you.
00:02:22:11 - 00:02:26:09
Maumer Razic
I would like to just say that I think it's my German personality.
00:02:26:11 - 00:02:29:12
Andrew Saunders
Just.
00:02:29:14 - 00:02:30:13
Maumer Razic
I think it was what he.
00:02:30:13 - 00:02:33:02
Ben Brown
Gave us for.
00:02:33:04 - 00:02:34:23
Andrew Saunders
That was.
00:02:35:00 - 00:02:50:12
Maumer Razic
No, no. In all seriousness, though, we've had this version, so you'll meet a couple other guys in the future, too. That'll help tell the stories of dad. Bourbon. That's been kicked us off and what we want to do. And as we were thinking about, how do we tell these stories and what do we want to do that's interesting.
00:02:50:12 - 00:03:08:05
Maumer Razic
We're all the point in our lives or dads. And that was the key component for us. And so we've been big fans of dad for for a long time, and his videos helped me pick out the different pieces of equipment, things that I wanted to use for my kid when we had our first back in 2022. And so it's stuck with me since then.
00:03:08:05 - 00:03:25:22
Maumer Razic
Between that and then seeing these two jokers on the podcast. So when I saw the news in February, I was bummed like everyone else, and it kind of transitioned nicely into what we wanted to do. And one random night at like 11 p.m., sitting there writing the script and I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna fire off an email.
00:03:26:03 - 00:03:44:01
Maumer Razic
So I send an email to the dad for guys, and I'm like, I think, I think I remember the subject line being from one dad to another and just hit him with, hey, we have this vision of what we want to do. Originally called tales from dad, which is why we have the fun moniker now, Tales from dad verb that continue that legacy.
00:03:44:03 - 00:03:57:09
Maumer Razic
But we had this vision of the stories we wanted to tell and how we want to bring this channel back to life and continue the legacy of what these guys have built. But we want to do it in a way to where it felt authentic and genuine, and to where we could keep some of the original team. Right?
00:03:57:09 - 00:04:15:04
Maumer Razic
Like, we know that a lot of the reason that this community has grown is because you guys love Ben. You guys love Saunders, you guys loved Andrew. And that's the same kind of inspiration and vibe that we want to bring to the channel. And so sent the email out, sent the vision, and I was actually recording my first video for Tales From dad.
00:04:15:06 - 00:04:32:03
Maumer Razic
And all of a sudden I get a random phone call from a number I don't know. And for whatever reason, I decided to answer the phone in the middle of production, which our director and cinematographer at the time was not happy. He's like, what are you doing? Stop! But I picked up the phone and it's like, hey, this is Saunders from dad.
00:04:32:03 - 00:05:02:23
Maumer Razic
Verb put it on speaker. And I was like, just so you know, I'm recording. We're gonna film the whole thing. So at some point we'll release that footage. But yeah, we connected and, instantly just had, I think, a good relationship and understood the vision of how we all wanted to continue to tell these stories. I connected with two, kind of walked him through the process of our thinking, our vision, and our overall, I think goal is which most dads and everyone on this channel agree is just to become the one centralized resource for dads in this community going forward.
00:05:03:04 - 00:05:17:18
Maumer Razic
So we want to provide value. We want to answer the questions that you guys have talked about, the stories that you want to hear more of, and honestly do some of the gear reviews that you want to see more of. Two, because those have been a huge hit. But that's that was our vision, and it started off with a random email in the middle of the night.
00:05:17:18 - 00:05:36:07
Maumer Razic
And so I've just got to give props to Saunders, Ben and Andrew to, on being responsive and having that, being willing to have the conversation for us to say, how can we bring this Phoenix back to life? I love that analogy, Ben. But how do we continue to bring it forward? And so that's that's where we are today.
00:05:36:09 - 00:06:03:06
Ben Brown
Awesome. Well, we are super excited to be back. And as you mentioned, mama, you know, obviously there is a voice missing from this conversation. Andrew too. So Andrew has moved on to other things, you know, other creative work, other companies, which is fantastic. We're super happy for him. And hopefully we can, you know, continue to carry on that legacy and make something that, other dads can, can really get used from, learn from.
00:06:03:07 - 00:06:04:08
Andrew Saunders
00:06:04:10 - 00:06:24:16
Ben Brown
And honestly, it's a place for, for dads to connect. Because I think one of the things we don't talk about in parenting is it can be a bit of a lonely road, right? When you get super focused on your kids, your family, your work, it doesn't leave a lot of other time to connect with other parents, with other resources.
00:06:24:18 - 00:06:45:12
Ben Brown
And so if we can help the, that kind of resource, I think we've done our job. So before we kick off into today's topic, mom, I'm actually going to start with you. Let's get a little intro, kind of who you are, where you're from, how many kids you got? And, you know, we obviously know kind of what brought you to the dad verb space.
00:06:45:14 - 00:06:48:11
Ben Brown
But we'd love to learn more about you, and then we'll kick it over to Saunders.
00:06:48:13 - 00:07:05:14
Maumer Razic
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Sir. So my name is mama, and I've realized from our first intro video, as you guys will go see on YouTube, that I probably should have had a lower thirds with how to spell my name, because that's not easy. Nor does it make sense, so I should going forward. It was a good learning. Thanks a lot.
00:07:05:14 - 00:07:06:11
Maumer Razic
Also. Must be.
00:07:06:13 - 00:07:07:10
Andrew Saunders
Fun. No? Yeah.
00:07:07:10 - 00:07:10:21
Maumer Razic
I think someone also called me stepdad on there, which was kind of. Yeah, I liked it.
00:07:10:23 - 00:07:12:07
Andrew Saunders
Yeah.
00:07:12:09 - 00:07:33:01
Maumer Razic
But my name is Mom and Dad. The two, we have a three year old and a two year old named Ben and Leo. So for me, I've always been. And a very been great name. So I've got, I've got a, unique background that spans everything from, you know, the tech side and product management to telling stories and being a producer and so that's.
00:07:33:01 - 00:07:48:05
Maumer Razic
Yeah, that's all I've really focused on is how to tell the right stories and how to tell and bring people together. And now the stories I want to tell her about my kids love being a dad, and I love the experiences. There's definitely some days where I'm like, what's happening? But yeah.
00:07:48:07 - 00:07:53:08
Andrew Saunders
Yeah, what's happened? Why did I make this decision? Who are you? Evil monsters in my house.
00:07:53:10 - 00:08:15:02
Ben Brown
How did I get here? Yeah, my wife and I have that conversation all the time. We'll stop in the kitchen and just look at each other and go, how did we get here? Like, why am I? Why is someone screaming that they need their butt wiped from across the room? Like, it's just it's just it's amazing the situations you end up with once you have kids and there there's no real handbook for any of this.
00:08:15:02 - 00:08:23:10
Ben Brown
And I think at the end of the day, we're all just trying to figure this out step by step and hopefully these conversations will will help some other dads out there. Absolutely. Yeah.
00:08:23:10 - 00:08:47:05
Maumer Razic
Honestly, that's that's it's on us. We're terrible about talking about things unless we make it funny, engaging. And that's part of I want to do this right. Like we just we don't generally talk about things and we we try to compartmentalize. And I think that goes into some, some of the things that we'll talk about on the on the podcast, on the channel is like this image of a perfect dad and what you think you're supposed to do and not do and say.
00:08:47:05 - 00:08:49:12
Maumer Razic
And it's tough for everyone.
00:08:49:14 - 00:08:53:11
Ben Brown
Yeah. All right. Saunders, let's get a little re intro. Now that we're.
00:08:53:11 - 00:09:18:11
Andrew Saunders
Back to recap. All right, so my wife is going to be mad about this. Because we, we haven't officially done this yet. He's doing it. So I have a three year old. Her name is Paige. You all have actually met or seen her? I have a two year old. Her name is Scarlett. And in February, I am expecting a son.
00:09:18:13 - 00:09:40:20
Andrew Saunders
So his. He will be here eventually. We are not exposing his name, but as I've said in the past, we have fancy initials for all our kids. So his initials are XP for experience. So, Yeah. Anyway, that's where I'm at in the D&D journey. There's going to be another one. This will be the last one.
00:09:40:22 - 00:09:47:01
Andrew Saunders
I have been told very thoroughly this will be the last one. So at some point we get to do another vasectomy conversation.
00:09:47:03 - 00:09:49:17
Ben Brown
Yeah, I'm looking forward to that conversation again.
00:09:49:22 - 00:10:08:21
Andrew Saunders
Yeah, that'll be a fun one. But to roll it back a little bit, I, I just want to give props out to mama because he sent off that random email, and I must have read that thing 5 or 6 times, and I sent to a text message. I'm like, did you get this email? He's like, yeah, I'm just going to ignore it like I do all the rest of them.
00:10:08:23 - 00:10:27:22
Andrew Saunders
And I was like, okay, fair, because you got to understand, like we do get a lot of messages from other creators on Instagram who are like, hey, let's partner, hey, let's do this thing. And we go look at some of their content. We're like, yeah, we could partner with you. That seems good. And then we reach out and it never happens.
00:10:28:00 - 00:10:47:20
Andrew Saunders
Like, we talked about doing one with, who's a barbecue guy? Who got who logistically loaded. Yeah. And we just could never connect, right? We wanted to do something. He wanted to do something that just didn't happen. And then I was trying to figure out how to relaunch the podcast, and I was getting to the point where I was like, okay, it's going to be the best man for my wedding.
00:10:47:20 - 00:11:04:13
Andrew Saunders
My uncle. And like my brother in law and I'm like, this isn't going to be a good podcast. It's just going to be us sent about like our family crap like I don't want anyway. And so then I, I swear, I must have read that email like 5 or 6 times and I'm like, forget it. He put a phone number on there and I just hit it.
00:11:04:13 - 00:11:20:02
Andrew Saunders
And I called him from work one day, and we must have been on the phone for, what, 20, 30 minutes? Maybe an hour, like, he had a vision. And so I called to. And I'm like, there's a vision and we're doing it. And he was like, all right, run with it. Like I never told you I couldn't.
00:11:20:04 - 00:11:20:13
Andrew Saunders
And.
00:11:20:18 - 00:11:22:13
Maumer Razic
There was a charming personality.
00:11:22:17 - 00:11:52:20
Andrew Saunders
There was a charming person. It was his southern drawl, y'all. That just it just it got me right in the fields. Anyway, so that's where I'm at in my life. And what I'm doing with the dad stuff now, I never gave up on you. And I do want to say thank you to all of those guys who kind of made it through the podcast for, I want to say, the seven months we were off, because I learned last month and a big thank you goes out to all our listeners.
00:11:52:20 - 00:12:14:21
Andrew Saunders
We were still getting 280, 300 downloads a month or a week. Excuse me, from all of our past episodes. And to me, that tells me that even though we weren't producing, you guys still valued this content in a way that said, we need to bring it back and make it give it more, give it a refresh, keep going.
00:12:14:21 - 00:12:27:16
Andrew Saunders
Because you were digging it up. Whether we whether we produced or not, you were seeking it out. So there is an awesome. Yeah. Yeah. So big shout out and thank you to all the fans, all the dads, all the podcast listeners.
00:12:27:18 - 00:12:48:11
Ben Brown
Awesome. Well thank you Saunders. Appreciate it. I'm glad that we're all back together. So for any new listeners, I guess I'll give a little intro about myself for any new listeners, anybody who's new to the podcast or just hasn't listened in a while. My name is Ben. I've got two kids, and that's all we're having.
00:12:48:13 - 00:13:10:02
Ben Brown
Because we did do a vasectomy episode where Andrew and I both shared our our experiences. So we are we are done having kids, but my kids are, Lincoln and Rory. So we have a boy and a girl. And they are five and two and a half. So we are deep in the thick of raising kids.
00:13:10:04 - 00:13:36:01
Ben Brown
Which is. I'm actually really surprised I made it to the podcast tonight because we've been going through a run of, my daughter not sleeping for more than a few hours at a time, and both of them ending up in our bed somewhere between midnight and 2 a.m.. And then I have one on one side, one on the other, and I'm getting heels and elbows in our king size bed because they have to be in my arms while they're sleeping.
00:13:36:03 - 00:13:56:14
Ben Brown
And it has been it's been brutal. I it's very sweet to wake up with your your warm, safe, lovely children just, you know, sleeping like little angels before they wake up and start yelling about breakfast. But, yeah, it's it's been good. And then the last but seven months that we've been off in the break, we've taken from dad.
00:13:56:14 - 00:14:19:04
Ben Brown
Verb. I have to say that I've. I've missed it. I miss the audience. I've missed the engagement. And, and just having these, these meaningful conversations about fatherhood because it is such a big aspect of our lives. It's such a big aspect of our identities as as human beings. Right? I identify as a dad and a husband first, before anything else, before the work stuff or the content creation or any of that.
00:14:19:04 - 00:14:49:00
Ben Brown
I am a father, and that is the single most important thing that I do. And that's the single most important thing I can sort of give to the world is good people. You know, we are we're building a legacy through our kids, by helping them be good humans. And part of that happens through us learning and getting better as dads and realizing that, you know, the journey is long, the road is long, you're going to make mistakes, but it's okay because we're all in this thing together.
00:14:49:02 - 00:15:09:16
Ben Brown
All right. Awesome. Well, thank you guys for intro ING yourselves. Now, before we get into today's topic, one of the things we wanted to bring back in the podcast is the sick check. So we have like a little running tally of who has kids that are healthy. And if we can go, however many episodes with having everybody with healthy kids will mark it off.
00:15:09:21 - 00:15:20:12
Ben Brown
And then we get sick kids, which I'm sure will come up soon as we're approaching, told in flu season. Well, we'll reset that thing to zero. So I Saunders, let's start with you sick.
00:15:20:13 - 00:15:23:05
Andrew Saunders
I think the records, two episodes like. Yeah, the right.
00:15:23:10 - 00:15:24:15
Ben Brown
Like two, three episodes.
00:15:24:15 - 00:15:25:22
Andrew Saunders
It's been four episodes.
00:15:26:02 - 00:15:32:02
Ben Brown
Yo, stand care kids. Yeah, yeah. There's nowhere to go but up, right? Saunders, what about you?
00:15:32:02 - 00:15:39:06
Andrew Saunders
Sick our kids in it. They both got coughs, they got runny noses. They are sick. Like, now we're at a zero. This this.
00:15:39:08 - 00:15:40:04
Ben Brown
We're starting off.
00:15:40:04 - 00:15:46:18
Andrew Saunders
Strong. Starting off? Yeah. My kids were safe for, like, months now.
00:15:46:19 - 00:15:52:12
Ben Brown
What happened to their golden immune systems? They were never say preschool. Yeah, that'll do it.
00:15:52:17 - 00:15:53:12
Andrew Saunders
I think.
00:15:53:13 - 00:15:55:17
Maumer Razic
So. Petri dishes?
00:15:55:19 - 00:16:08:00
Andrew Saunders
They aren't sick, right? It's just like. Yeah, wet cough and runny nose. Like there's no fever, there's no lethargy. It's just. I think we can charge.
00:16:08:01 - 00:16:10:04
Maumer Razic
That as a as a somewhat healthy.
00:16:10:06 - 00:16:12:03
Andrew Saunders
Yes. Yeah. You're like.
00:16:12:05 - 00:16:13:04
Ben Brown
We'll give it a half.
00:16:13:05 - 00:16:34:05
Andrew Saunders
To be fair, this weekend I get this text message from my mother and she got, well, we figured out why Scarlet's nose was running. She picked up a Nano-SIM card and shoved it up her nose at my desk, and they found it. And they had pulled it out. And so she had a SIM card up her nose for at least a couple days, if not a week.
00:16:34:05 - 00:16:49:21
Andrew Saunders
Like, yeah, a bad parent. I missed a SIM card. I'm sorry, but, it happens. Yeah, well, she was on my brother in law's shoulders and my sister looked up and she goes, what is in her nose? And they plucked out an AT&T SIM card. I think it's amazing how.
00:16:49:23 - 00:16:51:13
Maumer Razic
She lay the future.
00:16:51:15 - 00:16:57:19
Andrew Saunders
Right now. She. But she doesn't have a very runny nose anymore. Kind of cleared it up. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway.
00:16:57:19 - 00:17:00:07
Ben Brown
Right, mom? Sick check on your end. How are the kids?
00:17:00:07 - 00:17:07:00
Maumer Razic
We are. Knock on wood. Thankfully, all doing good. My wife was a little sick, but she doesn't count.
00:17:07:02 - 00:17:08:03
Andrew Saunders
Something.
00:17:08:05 - 00:17:21:17
Maumer Razic
Which, actually, we need to. I have a clip. We interviewed her for one of the episodes, and there's a clip of her saying, this isn't this is dad verb, not mom verb. And we need to find a way to use that on the podcast. This is great.
00:17:21:19 - 00:17:25:01
Andrew Saunders
But yeah, every time you introduce yourself. This is dad. Verb.
00:17:25:01 - 00:17:39:23
Maumer Razic
Not for that verb. Not founder of. Yeah, but no, it's it's good. Thankfully everyone's healthy. They're just. Dude, we got a two year old too. And it is. Yeah, chaos. But thankfully, everyone's healthy, so I can't complain.
00:17:40:01 - 00:17:48:21
Ben Brown
Now. Your two year old is your second, right? Yeah, yeah, the second at two is,
00:17:48:23 - 00:17:50:17
Maumer Razic
It's it's a different beast, man.
00:17:50:18 - 00:17:55:23
Ben Brown
It's a different ball game because our first it our first at two is completely different than our second.
00:17:56:01 - 00:18:10:19
Maumer Razic
Our first was like it's still is so sweet, so kind, so loving. And the second one came out man just with the I will say he's passionate just like a will and a passionate and just just a.
00:18:10:21 - 00:18:13:06
Andrew Saunders
Way to describe the second session.
00:18:13:08 - 00:18:24:18
Maumer Razic
Sometime, just like pure terror. I'm like, dude, I feel like honestly though, it's my fault because I feel like this is how I was as a kid. So I feel like I'm parenting myself. And then it's like, I don't know what to do here.
00:18:24:20 - 00:18:29:10
Andrew Saunders
Your mom's just like, yeah, yeah,
00:18:29:12 - 00:18:37:00
Ben Brown
So sick. Check on our kids are all good. We've made it through. Gosh, how many weeks of school like.
00:18:37:01 - 00:18:38:05
Andrew Saunders
0895.
00:18:38:05 - 00:18:57:01
Ben Brown
Eight nine? Yeah, something like that. Our oldest is in kindergarten, so he's exposed to a ton of new kids. But luckily, you know, for better or worse, we also had kids, that were both of our kids were in daycare. So I think we got most of, like, the major stuff kind of out of the way early.
00:18:57:01 - 00:19:18:11
Ben Brown
Built up their immune system. So hopefully, fingers crossed, knock on wood, I'm going to get my lucky rabbit's foot out here. Everybody stays pretty healthy. You know, we've just gotten over some runny noses and all that stuff, you know, seasonal allergies and all that fun time. But we are we are crashing into cold and flu season. So we'll, you will see how this next episode goes.
00:19:18:11 - 00:19:21:01
Andrew Saunders
It's going to be a blast. Yeah. For sure.
00:19:21:03 - 00:19:42:03
Ben Brown
All right. So sick check is done. So for today's topic I think this is going to be an interesting one, especially for new dads. But also for older dads. Today we're going to talk about bonding with your kids. And I feel like bonding is such a broad thing. And it has it I feel like it has a very specific meaning.
00:19:42:05 - 00:20:03:06
Ben Brown
When your kids are really young, when they're first born, you're really trying to build that sort of physical and emotional bond. And then later on that that changes, right? As they get older, they get interested in more things, they can do more, they're capable of more. And so you have to be kind of more intentional about how you bond with them, because you're not holding them all the time.
00:20:03:06 - 00:20:10:06
Ben Brown
You're not doing skin to skin. So you really got to think about, you know, what are we going to do to, continue to build our relationship?
00:20:10:08 - 00:20:28:16
Andrew Saunders
So, and then they start asking, that's the other thing that is like, I, my three year old is started like, dad, I miss you. And I'm like, I went to work. I saw you like six hours ago. And you were at preschool the whole time. Like, when did you miss me? Like. But no, dad, I miss you.
00:20:28:16 - 00:20:34:09
Andrew Saunders
So. So we're having to start one on one dates, like daddy daughter dates as a thing, like. Yeah.
00:20:34:14 - 00:20:53:08
Ben Brown
So let's so let's dig into that. So I'm gonna, I'm going to ask us all to reel it back a little bit. Right. Get rewind that, go into the memory banks and let's think through, newborns. Right. So you're a newborn sage, you're a new dad. You're exhausted. You're coming home with this. This little. What's supposed to be this tiny bundle of joy, right?
00:20:53:08 - 00:21:10:05
Ben Brown
You get this little lump of flesh that they just let you walk out of the hospital somehow, with no training or information. You got to take it home. You got to bond with it. And you got to figure out how the hell do I be a good dad? How do I build a connection with this little thing?
00:21:10:05 - 00:21:32:21
Ben Brown
And I think it's particularly tough for dads because, you know, at least for the first, you know, six months, seven months, there's not a ton that we get to do with the kids, right? We get to play, but we're not feeding them where generally, you know, a lot of times we may not be the comfort source. Mom is usually that.
00:21:32:23 - 00:21:47:06
Ben Brown
So let's talk about that. And, Saunders, let's start with you. So when you, you know, when you had your first kid or when you, found a newborn in your house, kind of. What were the things that you were focused on or worried about to to build that bond?
00:21:47:08 - 00:22:12:19
Andrew Saunders
So I actually got really lucky, because we chose for a number of reasons, to bottle feed our kids. And so we actually divided up and I've talked about this before, but we actually divided up the day into days and nights. And so I was on night duty, which lasted until 3 or 4 in the morning every night with both of our kids.
00:22:12:19 - 00:22:40:02
Andrew Saunders
And I will probably do this with the third one. So I spent a lot of time snuggling and feeding and changing diapers and, I mean, I swear there was like a permanent spot in my chair where, like, my daughters just kind of fit between me and the armrest and and whatever. And we they played most of Zelda with me, just kind of snuggled up in my arm.
00:22:40:02 - 00:22:51:02
Andrew Saunders
Right. And because I could hold the controller and hold them and, you know, it didn't require much actual, like, attention if I needed to toss it, I couldn't. Wasn't really a problem.
00:22:51:04 - 00:22:52:23
Maumer Razic
The baby or the controller?
00:22:53:00 - 00:23:18:07
Andrew Saunders
Yes, yes, yes, the the controller. And so I spent a lot of time in that sense, like just that one on one moments. But I also didn't do a lot of, like, the tummy time stuff, because that was while I was at work and while mom had the them. Right. And they were up and active.
00:23:18:07 - 00:23:46:16
Andrew Saunders
I mean, I had a lot of like evenings snuggle feeding, caring moments, like comfort. And it took my wife a little while because she actually struggled, because I was the one when they started crawling and walking that they would come to if they got hurt. Because throughout the evenings I had always been the comfort parent. Right? And so that was it took probably until like 18 months for my eldest daughter to think mom would comfort her over dad.
00:23:46:18 - 00:24:03:03
Andrew Saunders
The second one that happened a lot faster because she was emulating her sister, but, the oldest one, I mean, and I was like, they just don't love me. And I was like, it's just because dads are magic. Like, I. And I kept saying, like, now I'm just magic. Like, that's how it works. Like she'd cry, I'd pick her up, she'd be done.
00:24:03:05 - 00:24:09:02
Andrew Saunders
Then my wife's like, how do you do that, dad? I'm magic. The eggs are magic, right? Yeah.
00:24:09:04 - 00:24:14:09
Ben Brown
And we should get into that in another episode about parental preference and how that shifts.
00:24:14:13 - 00:24:15:04
Maumer Razic
Yeah.
00:24:15:06 - 00:24:33:02
Ben Brown
Throughout the years, because it will change. So if you're. Oh, yeah. Good news is, if you're not the preferred parent right now, if they go to mom or if they go to dad, that will change. At some point you will be the preferred parent. And then just as you're getting used to being the preferred parent, it will change again and you won't be the preferred parent anymore.
00:24:33:02 - 00:24:37:01
Ben Brown
And they want nothing to do with you for about six months, and then it'll change again.
00:24:37:03 - 00:24:49:04
Maumer Razic
So fatherhood and parenthood isn't a straight line by any means. Like it's always changing. And I think part of the challenge and the beauty of it is having to figure it out like, look.
00:24:49:06 - 00:25:10:14
Andrew Saunders
My two year old preferred parent, my two year old's preferred parent is Grampa. Okay? Everybody else is chopped liver. If he is within your earshot because she's like, Where's grandpa? And I'm going to him screw the rest of you. Like, yeah. So like that's a big one. That's like, oh, man, she really doesn't love me. She loves him.
00:25:10:16 - 00:25:12:08
Andrew Saunders
So anyway.
00:25:12:10 - 00:25:20:12
Ben Brown
So, mama, what about you? So when you go back to those newborn days, like, what were some of the things you were doing to to really build and reinforce that that initial. Bob.
00:25:20:14 - 00:25:22:04
Maumer Razic
This is great because.
00:25:22:05 - 00:25:28:04
Andrew Saunders
You have an interesting story. So preface that properly for people because what I was going to say talked about it, but they haven't heard it.
00:25:28:04 - 00:25:43:11
Maumer Razic
Well, tease it because you will see part of that story in our first video coming up on the channel, as you can tell with the our shorts and what we're doing, the topic of this month is bonding. And we want to talk about because we have those moments. And the guys like Saunders, who are lucky enough to have that instant connection.
00:25:43:13 - 00:26:05:11
Maumer Razic
But there's also this segment of dads, which I fell in where I didn't, especially early on. I did not feel like a dad. It took a while. And part of that was because my wife developed severe pre-eclampsia. Baby had to come early. We're in the queue for two weeks, and so there was a pitch. Both of our sons were in the Nicky for, extended stretch, six weeks total between the both of them.
00:26:05:13 - 00:26:21:20
Maumer Razic
But what ended up happening was there was like a limited amount of time we could take the baby out, hold the baby, do skin to skin, do the feeding. And so I didn't want to take that away from my wife because she'd just had this baby in this traumatic experience. Like, what am I supposed to be like now?
00:26:21:20 - 00:26:39:12
Maumer Razic
Let me hold it. We were breastfeeding and so like, she automatically had that plus the skin to skin. So I was there. I felt like I was like going through the motions of being with partner, supporting her, changing the diapers that I could even when we got home. Same thing with breastfeeding. Like there was a very limited number of things I could do.
00:26:39:14 - 00:26:57:15
Maumer Razic
And so I had in my mind like this, this vision of what I thought fatherhood was meant to be like everything I've seen, the movies or TV shows of as soon As You Hold That Baby like a great cinematic moment when Simba's being held up in the air, you know, like that's what I felt like I should have had an experience of.
00:26:57:17 - 00:27:16:15
Maumer Razic
And when I didn't, that crushed me. I was like, am I not a good dad? Am I not meant for this? Like, what's wrong with me? And two things that I don't think I did well was communicating that tried. And and this goes back to like dad just not being good communicators in general. We're good at communicating in general.
00:27:16:17 - 00:27:31:14
Maumer Razic
So I tried had tried to figure it out on my own and try to say, like, what can I do? And it took me probably 6 to 8 months before I started to finally feel a connection with my baby. And it's not that I didn't love. I love my kid. I love my wife throughout the entire process.
00:27:31:14 - 00:27:51:23
Maumer Razic
But I just never felt like, yeah, this is what it's supposed to be like. And it's and this was my key learning was that through all of this, there's not a definition of what being a dad is supposed to be for you or for anyone else. But what's interesting is everyone has some preconceived notion of what fatherhood is supposed to be.
00:27:52:03 - 00:27:59:15
Maumer Razic
And you tell yourself, this is what I'm supposed to do, and this is the experience I'm supposed to have. So like, when it doesn't feel like, well, the wrong approach.
00:27:59:15 - 00:28:04:16
Andrew Saunders
Is wrong, by the way. Yeah, that's true. Even though they're all like, every one of us is like,
00:28:04:18 - 00:28:09:12
Ben Brown
It will be different for everyone and it will be different than than the way you expected.
00:28:09:14 - 00:28:10:17
Maumer Razic
Absolutely.
00:28:10:19 - 00:28:34:06
Andrew Saunders
You know, when my moment was I don't know if this happened for you guys, but do you know when the like, oh, God, I really care about that kid was I woke up from a nightmare and I was ready to murder somebody like I was. I had had some like, nope, someone's gonna die today. And then something had been happened in my dream, and I was amped up and ready to fight.
00:28:34:08 - 00:28:54:02
Andrew Saunders
And it was like, okay, I guess I really do care a lot about this kid. Like, it's not just like I'm not just walking through the motions, right? And it I mean, I think she was six months old. Like, I'm not going to say like it wasn't instant right? Like I was doing all the work, but it wasn't.
00:28:54:02 - 00:28:57:02
Andrew Saunders
And then I woke up and I was like, okay, I get it.
00:28:57:02 - 00:28:57:21
Maumer Razic
And it's.
00:28:57:23 - 00:28:58:09
Andrew Saunders
Calm.
00:28:58:11 - 00:29:20:18
Maumer Razic
In my mind, the same thing. It's like. It's like countless repetitive motions of the little things. Like for me, it was bottles. I washed so many bottles because again, you're breastfeeding and like, that's where she would store, like, that's how I would help. But it was all of that. And then like the slow change of, like the 6 to 8 month old phase of recognizing my voice, grabbing my finger, and I'm like, all right, this is starting to feel real.
00:29:20:20 - 00:29:37:00
Maumer Razic
And same thing. One random night, we we co-sleep for a while, and I know that's frowned upon. And we got yelled at the NICU because like, back is best. But it worked for us and our family. But for me, I remember just waking up in the middle of the night one night my wife was asleep, baby was asleep.
00:29:37:02 - 00:30:01:18
Maumer Razic
I just looked over and I swear I think I have pictures of him. He was like smiling at me and I'm like, oh dude, this is it like broke down, super emotional. I'm like, I literally wrote a note in my, in my phone about it. Like how I felt and just like, journal it personally for it. But yeah, it's there's a thousand little things that came together for me to finally feel it, but it just made me realize that bonding doesn't happen right away for everyone.
00:30:01:19 - 00:30:19:05
Maumer Razic
For some people, it does. There's actually a stat that says 25% of new dads experience delayed postnatal bonding, so you get a quick tip to what you'll see in the video coming forwards. But that is a that is just, I think, a key component of like knowing that if you feel that way, you're not alone and it's okay.
00:30:19:09 - 00:30:23:09
Maumer Razic
Just keep doing what you're doing, keep showing up. And that's what's the most important.
00:30:23:11 - 00:30:24:16
Andrew Saunders
00:30:24:18 - 00:30:46:15
Ben Brown
Yeah, 100%. I mean, I think, I think, I think a lot of dads, you know, skip over or feel like they should have an instant bond with their kids. And it doesn't always happen. And that's okay. It will. It will build over time. It's that, it's that building, the familiarity, the and watching them change and sort of turn into a little person.
00:30:46:15 - 00:31:08:16
Ben Brown
I think that really changes things. And, you know, for us with both of our kids. So we, both of our kids are delivered via C-section. Our son was actually delivered via an emergency C-section. So we had a moment. We had we had intended on, you know, fully doing, you know, vaginal birth and just all the, you know, quote unquote normal stuff.
00:31:08:16 - 00:31:34:08
Ben Brown
Right? C-sections are perfectly normal. And I remember in the middle, in the middle of it, they had given my wife's, drugs basically to they had induced her because she went to like 41 weeks. And so they given her to giving her some drugs to. Yeah, they gave her pitocin, and they had to do a couple other things because she wasn't moving along quite as quickly as they wanted.
00:31:34:08 - 00:31:57:20
Ben Brown
And she effectively went into like one long contraction. So she looked uncomfortable. But, you know, not anymore. So than she had been for the last, you know, 14 hours of being induced in the labor. Yeah. But that, that squeezing actually like, it dropped his heartbeat into, like a 50s, like it was super low. And so I was sitting there.
00:31:57:20 - 00:32:18:07
Ben Brown
I remember this vividly. I was sitting in the chair and the, the sort of pre delivery room. Right. And I'm watching like some random episode of The Office because that's like my comfort show when I'm, when I'm nervous or anxious, like I just throw on the office is background noise. And I had my headphones in and they seen the nurse come in and I was like, okay, they're in here all the time.
00:32:18:07 - 00:32:34:14
Ben Brown
And then I see another nurse come in. It's like, okay, well, that's all right. Two people. It's a little weird, but no big deal. And then I see the doctor come in, and then another nurse and the room just kept filling up with people, and I was like, man, I so probably take my headphones out and see what's going on.
00:32:34:16 - 00:32:49:01
Ben Brown
It's like, this seems like it's important. And so that's when they kind of told us what was going on and they're like, hey, you know, we're checking things out. We want to make sure you safe. We're going to take you for a C-section, which we had not planned on. So fast forward through, you know, kind of the whole process.
00:32:49:01 - 00:33:09:18
Ben Brown
I was actually because my wife was on the operating table. I was the the first one to hold both my son and my daughter, because we did, a scheduled C-section for her instead of a vac. Or if for those of you who don't know what a vac is, it's a vaginal birth after cesarean. It's where you have a natural birth after you've had, a C-section.
00:33:09:20 - 00:33:31:12
Ben Brown
But we decided to well, the first one we didn't decide for C-section, the second one we did, so I was able to hold my son and my daughter, as soon as they came out, which was, for me, an incredible experience. You know, being able to to see them come right out, especially after my son, who is, you know, it's kind of a very nerve wracking experience.
00:33:31:12 - 00:33:34:11
Ben Brown
We were very nervous that that something was going to go wrong.
00:33:34:13 - 00:33:36:04
Andrew Saunders
00:33:36:06 - 00:33:55:12
Ben Brown
And then when it came to, like, building that bond, I mean, I think that was number one is I was put in a position that I think a lot of dads don't get to do, right. They don't get to be the first one to hold their kid. And then secondly, it was like as much as I could because my wife had gone through a C-section.
00:33:55:12 - 00:34:12:14
Ben Brown
And, you know, obviously she had her her belly split open cut through the abdominal wall, everything. Like she's in a lot of pain. She's uncomfortable. So I really had to step up and do a lot of the the bonding, the swaddling, the, you know, anything that was physical with the baby where she would have to use her core.
00:34:12:14 - 00:34:31:09
Ben Brown
Those were the things that that I was able to do. So from a very young age or, you know, as soon as she was born, we were doing skin to skin. And, I was talking to him a lot. And, you know, my wife and I were both music majors in college, so I had actually built a whole playlist of music.
00:34:31:09 - 00:34:39:19
Ben Brown
And so I would just sit there and, and, you know, when he would get upset, I'd take him out. I would just hold him and sing to him and kind of walk him around the room and all that and that just.
00:34:39:19 - 00:34:42:18
Maumer Razic
The same, like music or hello playlist that you were listening.
00:34:42:20 - 00:34:59:12
Ben Brown
To? No big, no big acts to plug. This is, there's a lot of different stuff on there. I continue to build them out because I will be damned if my kids don't have good taste in music. That's that's so what? Kids are very, very. Yeah, yeah, they're going to have that. They're going to have a lot of stuff, on their playlist.
00:34:59:12 - 00:35:13:19
Maumer Razic
But so I want to I actually want to ask, you, Sara Sanders, to say, like, you talk about, like, getting the hold your son like, in that first moment. And I'd say that is right. Right. For me, it was so different because I went I at least went 3 or 4 days before I could hold the babies.
00:35:13:19 - 00:35:29:23
Maumer Razic
Both of them. I think my second was even longer. Like, I makes me a little jealous. I'm very happy for you. But I'm like, I can't even imagine, like, what I would feel in that moment. Like, can you walk us through what was your thought process of like being the one that got to hold it at that time?
00:35:30:01 - 00:35:33:11
Maumer Razic
I mean, it was it was weird.
00:35:33:12 - 00:35:51:08
Ben Brown
I'll say, because it for, you know, nine months, ten months or whatever, that, you know, you're going to have a kid. It's like you, there's this concept that you have this like concept of a child, right? Like you can see your wife's belly growing like you. You know that it's there.
00:35:51:10 - 00:35:52:17
Andrew Saunders
But intellectual concept.
00:35:52:17 - 00:36:02:20
Ben Brown
Yeah, but like, mom, mom is the vessel, right? Like, she is literally growing that baby inside her body. So there's there's a connection there.
00:36:02:22 - 00:36:04:22
Andrew Saunders
She's getting kicked for six months. Yeah.
00:36:05:00 - 00:36:24:13
Ben Brown
I mean, he literally he literally like, he literally, like, broke my wife's ribs, like, because he was so high up in her, in her belly, like, she had a cracked rib from him kicking her out. But yeah, being able to hold him and being like the first one to be able, like, talk to him, was amazing because it was the first time it felt real.
00:36:24:18 - 00:36:35:09
Ben Brown
It was like all of a sudden you're like, oh, God. Like, I'm. I'm a parent now. Like, I am now responsible for this little thing that just got pulled out of my wife.
00:36:35:11 - 00:36:37:16
Maumer Razic
This little blue alien, that first.
00:36:37:18 - 00:36:42:00
Ben Brown
Yeah. I mean, they're all like, gray and gooey and, like, weird looking when they come out.
00:36:42:02 - 00:36:45:05
Andrew Saunders
Smell like the movies. Oh, no, no, no one told me that.
00:36:45:05 - 00:36:50:08
Maumer Razic
I was like, I didn't come out looking, I my first. I was like, dude, he's literally blue. Like, what is this?
00:36:50:10 - 00:36:53:11
Andrew Saunders
I was like, wax and smelly and yeah.
00:36:53:13 - 00:37:17:11
Ben Brown
Yeah, it's it's birth is is not a it birth is the best way of describing it is birth is like a kind of gross and violent process. Oh yeah. Like it's it's just it's it's weird. It's it is somewhat violent. I mean, honestly, when you see a C-section happen, like, they're, like, moving around on the table, like it's crazy.
00:37:17:13 - 00:37:45:05
Ben Brown
But the end result being, I get to hold this thing that I've sort of been waiting nine months, ten months to me. And for me, I was fortunate enough that I did, I think in that moment sort of start that bond with my kid, and was able to do that with both of them. I will say with the second child, it felt much more businesslike, than the first one.
00:37:45:06 - 00:38:02:06
Ben Brown
Right. Because we went for a scheduled C-section. It was like checking into a hotel, and it was like, okay, we'll we'll get to you at like 11. And then somebody comes in with an emergency delivery and it's like, all right, we're going to push you back to one. And you're just sort of hanging out, just waiting for them to tell you, okay, your room's ready and you're going to go have a baby now.
00:38:02:06 - 00:38:04:06
Ben Brown
Like there's no labor, there's no anything.
00:38:04:12 - 00:38:10:14
Andrew Saunders
Did you order fries? Like, did you get the fried aside one? I would like one baby on a side of fries, please.
00:38:10:16 - 00:38:18:15
Maumer Razic
Yeah, I'll tell you with our second. I don't know if I told Sanders the story or not. So if I did. Sanders, I'm sorry. If you have to listen to it again.
00:38:18:17 - 00:38:20:15
Andrew Saunders
Wouldn't be the first time.
00:38:20:17 - 00:38:41:17
Maumer Razic
The delay for me with that one was also, I don't want to say self-inflicted. And this is like, kudos to my wife, but and what we can get it to into the details of everything later on. But my wife was giving like she was induced for both 33 weeks for this first 31 for the second. So the second was they're in the NICU for over a month.
00:38:41:18 - 00:39:00:20
Maumer Razic
And so I feel like she was being induced. We were there for the weekend as they're taking her back to and my stomach was hurting and I had to tell her and the nurse like, hey, it's bad timing and I gotta go. Not I'm not taking like, trying to take the limelight off of you, but I don't feel good.
00:39:00:22 - 00:39:04:05
Maumer Razic
And it turns out long story short, my appendix had ruptured.
00:39:04:06 - 00:39:06:00
Andrew Saunders
So my job.
00:39:06:02 - 00:39:30:07
Maumer Razic
Ended up in the E.R., ended up with emergency surgery, her induction and like, actually push I think was like 42 hours very long time. Also something no one tells you about with pitocin and how slow it can work and how long can take. But I remember being wheeled back in the room and like, I just, I can't do the things because I had a little appendix taken out, like I'm sore and everything, but then kick, kick it.
00:39:30:07 - 00:39:51:13
Maumer Razic
Kicking us into the NICU couldn't hold him right. I'm in pain. I can't lift out. I had to have that delay again. Kind of self-imposed, but not so. It made it even longer for me. So like by the time we got home, she had already had this beautiful connection outside of growing the child in her belly and figuring all that out, holding it, feeding it, then doing breastfeeding at home.
00:39:51:15 - 00:40:11:03
Maumer Razic
And I had this lame ass doctor's note that said, don't lift anything above a certain way. I'm like, I got a baby in a toddler, what am I supposed to do? And so it made it very challenging. And I think that's partially why like, I've, I've struggled personally with both of ours. The second time though, I did feel like I can at least do this.
00:40:11:03 - 00:40:28:19
Maumer Razic
You know, our oldest, they're 16 months apart, so a little over a year and a half. At that point, my art, he likes me. Pretty good relationship going on so far. So I had those in my mind thought like neural pathways already built. So I'm like, okay, I know what to expect. It's different because they're different people completely in the norm.
00:40:28:22 - 00:40:41:03
Maumer Razic
They prefer different things. But I was like, it might take longer, but I at least did have the same preconceived notions and expectations of what I was supposed to feel that first time. And I'm like, all right, I can be more patient.
00:40:41:05 - 00:41:08:11
Ben Brown
Yeah, yeah. The the second is is totally different than the first. So yeah, going into multiple kids, it's, it's a whole different experience. Like I said, it felt it felt much more businesslike. You know, those first couple months, I think, than, it much more businesslike and less anxiety inducing. Yeah. The second time around, because you were like, well, I kept the first one alive for two and a half years, and the second one shouldn't really be any different.
00:41:08:11 - 00:41:34:17
Ben Brown
Right? Right. Yeah. So when it comes to, like, actual bonding, like techniques, I guess, you know, one of the things they always encourage is skin to skin, right? Having your, your baby get used to your, one, the comfort, just the warmth and helping co regulate their, their hormones and their body temperature because, it's one of the things, you know, a lot of dads miss I feel like is babies cannot regulate their own temperature.
00:41:34:17 - 00:41:55:18
Ben Brown
And so skin to skin is really important right. Because it'll help them regulate their body temperature. Plus, they're getting used to your smell. But besides kind of skin to skin, where they're other things that you guys were doing in Saunders, I'll start with you, to build that bond in those first couple months. Besides video games.
00:41:55:19 - 00:42:16:16
Andrew Saunders
First, I'm trying to think if there were, like, any big ones. I mean, we did a lot of. I did a lot of carrying, so I had the carrier and we did a lot of, like, like, fallen asleep right here in the carrier. I know they say don't let them sleep on your belly, but you know what?
00:42:16:18 - 00:42:20:22
Andrew Saunders
I strapped them into a carrier, and out they went on my chest. And. Yeah.
00:42:21:00 - 00:42:45:00
Ben Brown
There's there's a lot of rules that they will tell you that in, in the grand scheme of things. Yes, they are, according to the data, the best thing, the the safest thing that you can do. But I remember getting yelled at in the hospital because I mean, there's people in and out of your room all night, and I would, get yelled at because I'd fall asleep with the baby on my chest in that super uncomfortable hospital chair.
00:42:45:05 - 00:43:06:06
Ben Brown
Yeah. And they would come in and be like, sir, like, we can't have you do this because we're going to have, like, you know, fall and baby data, like drop baby data at our hospital. We can't let you do that. But I think what you just mentioned, Saunders, the the baby wearing that was something that, I know I did a lot because, number one, I have two hands.
00:43:06:06 - 00:43:25:09
Ben Brown
I can actually do stuff and help with things. If I get two hands and I'm not holding a baby. But number two, it helps them see the world, and helps them bond with you. And just knowing that they're safe and being able to carry them around like that was, was really special. Because you can't you honestly can't do that for very long.
00:43:25:11 - 00:43:44:22
Andrew Saunders
You you know what, I, I, I never made this mistake, but the the panic that I always had was I would start cooking while wearing my kid and be splashing like bacon grease or butter on their little legs while I'm like and like I, I had to I'm a big cook, like we've talked about it. I love to cook food.
00:43:45:00 - 00:44:10:03
Andrew Saunders
And so like I had to consciously be like, okay, I'm wearing the kid. I can't really cook right now because I don't like they're in front of me and there's a splash zone. I swear to God, it occurred to me still to this day, but yeah, so that was wearing the kid was a big one. And then I actually had a lot of fun and bonded in kind of that.
00:44:10:09 - 00:44:38:00
Andrew Saunders
Six months to 18 month range around food and trying new foods and like, sampling different things and like, I mean, I bought all kinds of like, little dissolvable treats and toys and chewy's and like, we were we bonded very much over that part of their life. Right.
00:44:38:02 - 00:44:45:19
Maumer Razic
Oh, and so my kids feed me and when they're that, that's what they thought was hilarious. I like making fun. My wife thought process like, oh, they took a bite of that. I'm like, I don't care.
00:44:46:01 - 00:45:06:22
Andrew Saunders
But they're the only people I share food with. Like, I kiss my wife. I will not take a bite out of her hamburger. My daughter's like that. Have a bite. And I'm like, okay. It's like, right. But yeah. So for me, that was something I was very passionate about and it was very easy to start sharing with my like.
00:45:07:04 - 00:45:27:18
Andrew Saunders
But again, I disobeyed the rule. Right? I think we started like, I think my kid had chicken tikka masala sauce. Oh my salad sauce at like six months. Like I it's on Facebook. I'm like, she didn't spit it up. This diaper is going to be terrible, right? And it wasn't like a spoonful, right? Like I dipped my pinky in it.
00:45:27:18 - 00:45:53:18
Andrew Saunders
I shoved it in her mouth and I went, what? What face are you going to make? Right? Oh, like. Yeah. And so, those were the things that we bonded over very early, you know, and it's still to this day. Right? Like, we actually have weekly dinners. It's dad and daughter dinner, and I and me and the girls go, and we have basically the same meal every Tuesday at the same restaurant.
00:45:53:18 - 00:46:22:04
Andrew Saunders
Like, they know us. And it's just what we do, right? That's awesome. But it's it's time we get together, right? Yeah. And so I think for me, I was passionate about it. One of the other things that I did was in the music vein, I built a daddy, I call it songs for the girls. It was originally songs for TPK because I only had one, and then it got renamed to songs for the girls.
00:46:22:06 - 00:46:29:17
Andrew Saunders
But it's all the like daddy daughter songs that are that come up. So like,
00:46:29:19 - 00:46:31:09
Ben Brown
All the ones that make you cry when you.
00:46:31:09 - 00:46:54:07
Andrew Saunders
Oh yeah, all the ones that make you cry when you hear them. And all the ones that like will put you to sleep. And so the first song on that thing is Good Night, sweetheart by, the the stones or the whoever. I don't know who it is, but I sang them that with the song putting them to bed a couple, a couple times a week.
00:46:54:09 - 00:47:26:16
Andrew Saunders
And to this day, my eldest will get drowsy by the third or fourth song in that playlist because I have, like, classically conditioned her to fall asleep at these. These songs played in order, which is amazing and scary at the same time. But that was another thing that I was like, I wanted them to have that. Even if they couldn't understand the words, that emotional sense of what that was from a very young age with music and and the like.
00:47:26:16 - 00:47:31:05
Andrew Saunders
Right? I mean, I'm not throwing any Snoop Dogg in there, but, hey.
00:47:31:07 - 00:47:34:23
Maumer Razic
Nuke Dog does a children's playlist and album.
00:47:35:00 - 00:47:37:14
Andrew Saunders
I am aware that it is actually kind of amazing.
00:47:37:14 - 00:47:51:12
Ben Brown
It's good. Awesome. All right, mama, what about you? So I know you had a bit of a different situation where you couldn't bond with them kind of immediately, but, what what were some of the steps that you took? You know, for all the NICU dads out there?
00:47:51:14 - 00:48:12:14
Maumer Razic
Yeah. So for me, especially with them being preemies and so small, I couldn't really wear them. So that took a long time. But what we did have was we had a doona and we loved our doona. It was one of the best things to have, because what I would do and this is also, you know, we'll talk about it in another video at some point.
00:48:12:14 - 00:48:31:12
Maumer Razic
Just keep sprinkling these things in throughout here. But what I would do is I almost forced myself to take the baby on walks every morning. So like a, especially that first like a morning ritual where I would take the baby in the doona. Go on a walk. It was a good way for me to get some steps in, but also gave my wife some peace and quiet.
00:48:31:14 - 00:48:51:03
Maumer Razic
And so for the longest time, like, we're talking like not short walks. I would walk for like ours. Like there was I took a picture once. I walked for like 92 minutes with the baby because I just want to sleep. Didn't want to go. I didn't want to wake up and like, you know, just keep going. But that would be our thing because then he'd either be asleep before I got in the doona or fall asleep in the doona.
00:48:51:05 - 00:49:07:16
Maumer Razic
So like, he would just wake up like a smile on his face, like being outside and beautiful weather seeing me. And so for me, that was the biggest thing of like just trying to find what those moments were. Because it's different for preemies, because you have to be a little bit more careful with them just because of the size and weight in each.
00:49:07:17 - 00:49:27:21
Maumer Razic
Each baby's different. But I couldn't wear them. So I'm like, what can I do? And it was the food. It was walking around with them. But then honestly, just whenever we did, I was lucky enough to have paternity leave. So took some time off and like was there for all the tummy time and activities and we just try to make them laugh, try to do whatever I could.
00:49:27:23 - 00:49:47:22
Maumer Razic
And then honestly, the, the biggest thing that worked for both of our kids was reading books to them. My kids love books for whatever reason. It's like I didn't realize how emotional and sentimental some of these, like, stupid children's books are. And I'm like, Goodnight Moon still gets me to this day, and it's not even supposed to.
00:49:48:00 - 00:49:49:05
Ben Brown
Oh, I'm no good.
00:49:49:07 - 00:49:56:04
Andrew Saunders
What's what's the mama? Mama are for my child? No, no, no. Like,
00:49:56:06 - 00:49:57:23
Ben Brown
Oh, guess how much I love you, though.
00:49:58:04 - 00:50:03:17
Andrew Saunders
Yeah. How much I love you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Forever. My baby. You'll be like, yeah.
00:50:03:17 - 00:50:04:10
Maumer Razic
Oh, yeah.
00:50:04:12 - 00:50:31:15
Ben Brown
That's, Yeah. So I, that that book. I know what book you're talking about. And that book is one that my mom used to read to me. Yeah. And I still she's still to this day. She gave me my copy of that book to read to my kids. And I remember just standing. Oh, I remember standing in the baby store, like, looking at books that we were going to pick out because we've read same thing, like we've read to our kids since they came home.
00:50:31:15 - 00:50:52:20
Ben Brown
Right? Like every night we read a book before we go to bed, which has helped them tremendously with their language skills. But it's just a good way for us to bond. But that book in particular, I remember standing in the baby store and I hadn't had, like a ton of super emotional reactions to things. And I picked up this book and I was like, oh, my mom used to read this to me and I start reading it.
00:50:52:22 - 00:50:57:23
Ben Brown
I got two pages in and I'm standing in the middle of babies are sobbing.
00:50:58:01 - 00:50:59:15
Andrew Saunders
And I was like, I'm going to read this.
00:50:59:17 - 00:51:04:00
Ben Brown
Like I was like crying into the book. I need to like, I have to buy it now.
00:51:04:02 - 00:51:20:11
Maumer Razic
Our favorite, our favorite. I just looked up the aisle because I could remember it was you're my little honey bunny by collar Edwards. And it was just like a cute little rhyming kid's book. And I'm like, oh, this one always got me. So much so I ended up writing a kid's book for my kids.
00:51:20:13 - 00:51:21:05
Ben Brown
All about.
00:51:21:05 - 00:51:30:21
Maumer Razic
The dad experience. So I need to send you guys a PDF of it so you can see it. And I have got it some more back here on this bookshelf. But yeah, it was the same thing.
00:51:30:21 - 00:51:41:18
Andrew Saunders
Like, I mean, if if we're teasing that I'm working on a children's book right now for my kids, that's awesome. Yeah. So if, if, if and when the stories are written, we're working on illustrations. So if.
00:51:41:18 - 00:51:42:07
Ben Brown
Awesome.
00:51:42:07 - 00:51:45:22
Andrew Saunders
That'll be fun. But yeah. So,
00:51:46:00 - 00:52:05:01
Ben Brown
So you've done you've got skin to skin, baby wearing, reading, taking your kids on walks. I think, I think one of the really important things that you touched on, that it's kind of not just related to this, but related to the dad experience, especially in those new, you know, kind of newborn to, let's say, year old.
00:52:05:03 - 00:52:22:13
Ben Brown
One of the things that you said mama was, do what you can do, right? Like figure out what you can do. And I think that's one of the most important messages that we can put across in any of these podcasts is there's going to be a lot of times as a dad, especially a new dad, where you feel useless because mom is doing so much.
00:52:22:13 - 00:52:44:01
Ben Brown
She's feeding, she's caring, she's comforting, and you don't really feel like you're useful at that point. But like you said, the bottle washing, having that routine where you can walk them, finding those opportunities to bond there are tremendously important for, building that relationship with your kids. And that's that's something that we did as well. Like we went on daily walks.
00:52:44:01 - 00:52:49:10
Ben Brown
We read all the time, skin to skin, baby wearing all that stuff.
00:52:49:12 - 00:53:00:07
Maumer Razic
You know, I talk about bottle washing. I remember watching a video. This is one of Andrew's earlier videos where you're, like, things that he doesn't recommend necessarily or that he would skip. And one of the things, one of the things that was like.
00:53:00:07 - 00:53:01:11
Andrew Saunders
Microwave steamer.
00:53:01:11 - 00:53:19:22
Maumer Razic
Garbage, well, it was like the, the bottle sterilizers and the washer. Yeah. I'm like, dude, with how many bottles I washed, I had two of the Doctor Brown's like sanitizer things just ready to go constantly, like all the time. It just made my life so much easier because we had we had two sinks in our kitchen when we were at one of these houses.
00:53:19:22 - 00:53:39:07
Maumer Razic
And so, like, one would just end up being like a dedicated bottle sink. Nothing in there but bottles. Yeah. And so I would clean them, but it got to the point where both of our kids were so picky with bottles that we just, like, kept trying different ones, where the like, search slow flow ones for preemies of like test and learn what works, what doesn't work.
00:53:39:09 - 00:53:55:10
Maumer Razic
But I felt like I was watching bottle washing bottles 24 seven. And so I found these like little doctor Brown sterilizer things and I'm like, dude, this is way easier. They dry quicker. I'm like, I love these. Like, so I'm I this is the one thing I'm like, I don't agree with, but I love it and I will continue to use it if I need it.
00:53:55:12 - 00:53:56:19
Ben Brown
I totally get.
00:53:56:19 - 00:53:57:11
Maumer Razic
It. Wow.
00:53:57:12 - 00:54:12:20
Andrew Saunders
I mean, all right, what's coming up a thing? But I there's one piece of bonding we haven't covered is that after your kids are born, you actually have to focus on bonding with your wife or you or the mother.
00:54:12:22 - 00:54:17:12
Maumer Razic
Like you. This is Denver. No, you have to actually.
00:54:17:13 - 00:54:45:23
Andrew Saunders
Spend some time because you both get so focused on the baby, right? While you're doing that around like 2 or 3 months, you just look at each other and go, oh yeah, we're in a relationship too, right? Yeah. And and you got to figure out how to connect with your significant other in that those early days. So you don't forget why you're in this and why you're doing it, and you're not mad at one another.
00:54:45:23 - 00:54:47:11
Andrew Saunders
And and you don't.
00:54:47:11 - 00:54:48:22
Maumer Razic
Feel like roommates.
00:54:49:00 - 00:55:08:14
Andrew Saunders
Yeah. You don't feel like roommates and like you're not biting each other's heads off for chores that aren't getting done that are absolutely, like, irrelevant, like pay someone to mow your lawn, okay? Just pay someone to mow your lawn. Yeah, don't worry about getting yelled at for the like. So that's one thing where, yeah, bonding with your kid.
00:55:08:16 - 00:55:21:03
Andrew Saunders
Extremely important. Like number one priority. Maintaining the bond with your significant other. Number two, like, don't forget about that. Anyway, so like, I.
00:55:21:05 - 00:55:40:02
Ben Brown
It's not it's us versus them. We're on the same team. Right. Like like when I'm, when I get yelled at and people are melting down, you know, it's really easy to go go at your spouse and think it's like their fault for some reason, just because they happen to be there. And what is what's that? The same closeness breeds contempt or whatever that is, right?
00:55:40:02 - 00:56:02:21
Ben Brown
Where it's like it's easy to take those feelings out on your significant other, and you got to realize, like, you're in this together, like you're both, you know, for lack of a better term, you're both in the shit, right? Like you're in it together. Everybody's tired, everybody's hungry. You just gotta figure it out. And give each other the grace and understanding to realize that, like, especially with that first one.
00:56:02:21 - 00:56:26:06
Ben Brown
Like you've never been parents before. Yeah, like you are. You are becoming this entirely new thing. And this entirely new chapter of your life. And in a large way, you're getting to know the person. Like my wife and I have been together since we were 19, right. And we're now 38. So we just celebrated our 19th anniversary together.
00:56:26:08 - 00:56:28:02
Ben Brown
Yeah. It's crazy that.
00:56:28:06 - 00:56:30:09
Andrew Saunders
Only a four year old like I got questions.
00:56:30:13 - 00:56:31:22
Ben Brown
Five, five and.
00:56:32:00 - 00:56:32:17
Andrew Saunders
We we didn't.
00:56:32:17 - 00:56:37:21
Ben Brown
We didn't get married until 27. And then we had our first kid at 32.
00:56:38:03 - 00:56:52:10
Maumer Razic
Don't let a peer pressure you start. Oh, I meant don't let Sandra's peer pressure event. My wife and I met in high school as well, and we were together almost a full eight years before we got engaged. So yeah.
00:56:52:12 - 00:56:56:08
Ben Brown
Yeah. So we were seven years, I think, before we got married. Something like that.
00:56:56:12 - 00:57:00:07
Andrew Saunders
Yeah, yeah, I got married on my two year anniversary of meeting my wife. Okay.
00:57:00:09 - 00:57:03:12
Ben Brown
Well, I'm sorry, I'm not. I'm not pedal to the floor like you.
00:57:03:14 - 00:57:05:11
Maumer Razic
We're slow. We're patient. You know?
00:57:05:11 - 00:57:07:16
Ben Brown
That's why you got it. That's why you got an extra kid.
00:57:07:18 - 00:57:10:11
Andrew Saunders
Yeah. Right. Right.
00:57:10:13 - 00:57:36:04
Ben Brown
But yeah, yeah, that bond is so important. So one of the things I do want to move us on to, dads that might have older kids kind of where we are now. Right? Like Saunders, you're resetting a little bit. Momma and I, you know, both have older kids. My kids are five and two. And this is where I think the bonding changes significantly right from those early days where you can just kind of pull them and they hang out, they don't really move.
00:57:36:04 - 00:58:06:15
Ben Brown
You get to do tummy time and all that fun stuff. But now, you know, especially that my my son is five and he's in kindergarten. So, you know, five days a week he's out of the house from 730 to, you know, 1 or 2. My daughter's at daycare. And so as your kids get older, you have to be much more intentional about how you bond with them and making the time to do it right between work and and your relationship with your spouse and all the other obligations in your life.
00:58:06:17 - 00:58:15:06
Ben Brown
So, Mara, I'm going to start with you. So now that your kids are a little bit older, what are some of the things that you're doing to continue to foster that relationship?
00:58:15:07 - 00:58:41:15
Maumer Razic
Yeah. And what's what I love about this is that as they are getting these ages, they start having their own likes and interests. And as dads, sometimes you try to influence those, right? But you have to start realizing what are the things that they want to do and enjoy doing and kind of meet them where they are. For my kids, actually, and this was I'm sure I had a little bit of, cognitive or psychological warfare.
00:58:41:15 - 00:58:59:03
Maumer Razic
I would just, like, plant the seeds slowly. But they love superheroes now, right? Like, yeah, Spider-Man hold all of the things. So, like, we'll watch the Spidey show every so often. He's my wife, and I, like, want to do a movie night together, but don't want the kids to be, like, felt like they're not involved or put on, like, the Avengers or something.
00:58:59:03 - 00:59:14:03
Maumer Razic
That's, like, not super scary that they'll be okay with. But yeah, they love playing with all the superhero toys. That's something I did when I was a kid. And so we'll just bond and just play together and we'll watch the TV together. I love Miss Rachel, but it's like I'm not sitting there watching Miss Rachel with them sitting there watching spy.
00:59:14:03 - 00:59:36:03
Maumer Razic
It's like a different kind of experience, you know what I mean? And so it's something that we can both enjoy. But even in, even in like work, I've tried to make the things that I do enjoyable. And so when I'm filming, when we're on set, whenever I'm filming B-roll, they think it's so interesting and they've latched on to, like, the thing daddy likes to do and that they want to do, too.
00:59:36:05 - 00:59:54:05
Maumer Razic
So much so that I've that they have their own like little polar baby Polaroid camera. So they'll follow me around, they'll take pictures. They'll, they'll, they're building their own things. But like watching me and they're finding enjoyment in those things. And so that's what I would say is the biggest thing that I've tried to do is like, focus on the things that they enjoy, that you enjoy and where that overlap is.
00:59:54:05 - 01:00:16:13
Maumer Razic
But show them what you also, as a dad, are passionate about and love. Because honestly, most kids at this age and they're still where they think we're cool and like, idolize us. Like, yeah, they want to be like their parents and just be like, oh, why is this cool? Why do you like this? Whether it's music, photography, tech, like whatever it is, like, I, I just try to keep them involved because I don't want.
01:00:16:15 - 01:00:32:06
Maumer Razic
And this is hard. And I'm lucky to be in a position where, like, I work from home, I don't want it to feel like work and family are always so separate and that if I'm working, they don't get access to that side of me. I want them to want to be involved because it honestly makes work more fun for me.
01:00:32:06 - 01:00:49:19
Maumer Razic
Like, yes, it's hard when they're playing around with a camera or like holding a lens that's very expensive. I'm like, please don't drop it. But it encourages that engagement and them to want to be interested in what I'm doing. And like, I can then talk to them like little people and little adults of like, wow, this is cool.
01:00:49:19 - 01:00:57:02
Maumer Razic
Here's what you can do with this. And we're just slowly developing those interests. And that's what I found. That works well for us so far.
01:00:57:04 - 01:01:19:07
Ben Brown
Yeah. Nice. Yeah I think we're we're kind of at that stage too, where you know, there is this shift. And I will say it's probably especially for for boys, where there was this probably around like three, like two and a half to three. Dad became really interesting. Yeah, right. And like, everything I was doing, he wants to be involved in.
01:01:19:07 - 01:01:36:12
Ben Brown
So, you know, like, we have a gym in our garage. If I go out there to workout, like, he's, like, he calls it extra size still, which is super strong. So he's like, he's like, dad, I gotta go get some exercise. And I was like, okay, cool, dude, let's go. So we'll go out and like, you know, throw around some kettlebell or like hit the hit the heavy bag.
01:01:36:12 - 01:01:54:02
Ben Brown
Or, you know, he's been wanting to do like pull ups and stuff. So we'll put him on the pull up bar and lift him up and down. And now we started getting into, like, I grew up, like, fishing and being outside. So now my son is at the age where, like, I can take him fishing. So now, you know, I didn't have any fishing gear anymore.
01:01:54:02 - 01:02:13:05
Ben Brown
So now I do you know, I went out and I got a whole set up, but now that's like a thing that we do. I love to play golf, so, like, my son has his own set of golf clubs, and he'll, you know, we'll go to the driving range like he had the day off from school the other day, and I took him to top golf for like 3 or 4 hours.
01:02:13:06 - 01:02:38:00
Ben Brown
And those, those moments where we now get to build those, like, core memories and those moments together, we're like, now he's he's a person. He understands what's happening. He has his own preferences, but he's still really interested in all the stuff that I'm doing. It puts a whole new layer on your relationship. It can, I think, be challenging at times, right?
01:02:38:00 - 01:03:09:07
Ben Brown
When you're in the routine of every day, you know, wake up breakfast school, he's at school for a couple hours and he's back and then it's homework and, you know, maybe play on the computer for a little bit, watch a show, bath, bed time, like it's just the same thing over and over. And so the bonding has to happen intentionally and it has to be I have to conscious Lego when I pick him up from school today, I'm going to put our golf clubs in the back of the truck, and we're going to go to the driving range instead of just going home and doing homework, or I'm gonna put the fishing poles in or,
01:03:09:09 - 01:03:24:05
Ben Brown
you know, Saturday morning, you know, we're going to wake up early and go fishing. So it just it you have to really think more about getting outside of your routine and doing those things that are going to create those memories.
01:03:24:07 - 01:03:28:21
Maumer Razic
Yeah, absolutely. That's. What about. That's for you, Saunders. How's it how's it been?
01:03:28:23 - 01:03:55:20
Andrew Saunders
So the three year old, who's going to be four, and I are actually working on, like, cooking skills now she's she's finally old enough that she's she takes direction, she listens. And she actually can, like, help cook. And a great example of this is last night, two nights ago, last night, we cut up, like, 3 pounds of mushrooms together.
01:03:55:22 - 01:04:09:04
Andrew Saunders
I gave her a six inch chef knife, like my $200 Global Chef knife. And I was like, okay, you got to hold it and you got to take a mushroom and you're going to cut it in half, and we're going to we're going to quarter them.
01:04:09:06 - 01:04:12:09
Maumer Razic
And honors is throwing baby. She's given.
01:04:12:09 - 01:04:34:04
Andrew Saunders
She went through she went through probably a pound and a half of mushrooms all on her. And I'm sitting there like do not cut your fingers. Watch where your fingers are because she's just chopping away. Right? But she didn't cut her fingers and she listened every time I was like, make sure you don't get your fingertips near the blade.
01:04:34:04 - 01:04:57:23
Andrew Saunders
Right. And, you know, so we're getting to that point where I get to impart my skill set onto her. And, at one. So, near the end of it, she was like, dad, I'm not doing the other cuts. I'm going to cut them in half and you have to do the other cuts. And so she was like having all the mushrooms and then sliding them over to me and making me do the, like, quarter and cuts on them.
01:04:57:23 - 01:05:19:05
Andrew Saunders
And I'm like, she thinks she's in charge of this kitchen all of a sudden, like, this is, you know, so we're doing a lot of cooking stuff right now because again, it's easy. We're doing dinners. I she's old enough now. I can put her near the stove and she won't burn herself. I don't have a gas stove and an electric stove, so she understands what hot is, what boiling is like.
01:05:19:07 - 01:05:31:01
Andrew Saunders
And so she will stir, like, soups and, things like that for me. Now, you know, again, I'm not trying to burn my kid alive. Right. But but I'm definitely the.
01:05:31:01 - 01:05:33:00
Maumer Razic
Trifecta on this episode.
01:05:33:01 - 01:05:33:10
Andrew Saunders
Yeah.
01:05:33:12 - 01:05:35:19
Maumer Razic
Knives throwing. Burning alive.
01:05:35:22 - 01:05:56:13
Andrew Saunders
Yeah, yeah. No. Where I feed them, I can't just nail on this fatherhood thing. Yeah. And so, you know, I've said it on here before, right? The world is cold. Dark and hard. Like, you better get used to it. And I'm not. I'm not patting my kids from that stuff. And so they're learning how to cook, right with me.
01:05:56:13 - 01:06:08:00
Andrew Saunders
Now, the the two year old is adjacent, and the three year old doesn't get the handle a knife when the two year old's around. Right. But why not? I mean, what's funny about it is I was using this.
01:06:08:04 - 01:06:09:02
Ben Brown
With the missing finger.
01:06:09:07 - 01:06:25:17
Andrew Saunders
Yeah, I was using this little tiny paring knife, and she's got my six inch chef knife, and she's just like, chop, chop. I don't know. All right, so stuff like that. I actually go to the office and, I have taken my daughter to work 2 or 3 times. I was just like, nope, you're coming with me today.
01:06:25:17 - 01:06:47:07
Andrew Saunders
And there's a rule at my work that you don't bring kids. And I'm like, I don't care. Today, dad and daughter are going to work, and she's just going to hang out with me all day. And if if one of the PhD college professors has a problem with that, we'll have a philosophical conversation about it. But like, it's not like I'm putting her in the CNC lab and be like, here's a lathe, go make a Barbie doll.
01:06:47:08 - 01:07:14:18
Andrew Saunders
Right. So I don't know, I'm engaging with them, I guess more I'm trying to bring them into the routine or make the routine engaging. Right. And I actually catch myself getting frustrated that I can't proceed through dinner as fast as I want to because they want to engage. And I have to be like, okay, I either need to send them in the other room and just be like, I'm making dinner and it's going to be 20 minutes and I'm over it.
01:07:14:18 - 01:07:21:08
Andrew Saunders
Or I have to acknowledge that it's going to take 90 minutes and I'm going to be hungry for any of those minutes while we make dinner. Right?
01:07:21:10 - 01:07:45:03
Ben Brown
Yeah. There's a there's a book, that I've been reading recently called Hunt Gather Parent. Which is all about all these other cultures, everything from the Mayans to the Inuit and kind of how they how they manage their kids. Right. And it has to do with, like, behavioral issues and like how they deal with anger and frustration and all of that.
01:07:45:05 - 01:08:15:11
Ben Brown
But the kind of core tenet of all of it is that children exist in an adult world and in sort of Western society, we treat children as though they exist. It's that we exist in their world, right? Right. There's special places for kids to play, which are, soft and they're not going to get hurt and all this stuff, and we make special entertainment concessions or we we don't involve them in the routine of daily life.
01:08:15:12 - 01:08:29:22
Ben Brown
And I think one of the most important things that you're talking about, Saunders, is like, not only should we, you know, take them and do special things, make that one on one time, but that one on one time doesn't have to be. I'm going to take a special trip or I'm going to do this special thing with them.
01:08:29:22 - 01:08:53:17
Ben Brown
Sometimes it is as simple as involving them in making dinner, because I think there's there's two really important things that happen. Number one is they get to see you as part of the home and part of the family, and how you're contributing to that. Number two is they feel that they are contributing to the family, which is really important for their understanding of their place and everything.
01:08:53:19 - 01:09:11:21
Ben Brown
And then lastly, giving them things that are challenging that they might not be able to do teaches them to deal with frustration and ultimately makes them more resilient because things are not going to be easy because they're not designed for that, right? It's not built for them. And that chef's knife is not built for a three year old's hand.
01:09:11:21 - 01:09:29:10
Ben Brown
Right balance for. And so things are going to be harder than they expect. And so it's an opportunity to work through that stuff and say, you know you can do things that are challenging. You can do things that are difficult, from a very early age. So I think it's super important.
01:09:29:12 - 01:09:34:09
Andrew Saunders
The other thing is if they cook the food, they're very likely to eat it. Yeah.
01:09:34:11 - 01:09:38:11
Ben Brown
Like they're very proud of themselves and they cook their own food. Yeah. It's it's amazing.
01:09:38:13 - 01:09:53:13
Andrew Saunders
Yeah. She looked at mushrooms entirely differently once she had chopped them all up and they were sauteed. And she's like, I'm going to eat those. I'm like, oh yeah, you are right. Perfect. And before mushrooms were gross. I don't like those. Now we're over that I feel like.
01:09:53:15 - 01:09:57:18
Ben Brown
So Pro tip if your kids don't like vegetables, give them a knife and let them cut them up and.
01:09:57:20 - 01:10:01:12
Andrew Saunders
Just let them go. It's not like, Yeah.
01:10:01:13 - 01:10:03:08
Ben Brown
Yeah, let them go to town.
01:10:03:10 - 01:10:03:18
Andrew Saunders
All right.
01:10:03:19 - 01:10:13:23
Ben Brown
Well, gentlemen, I think we've done a great job covering this bonding topic. You know, everything from newborn up through I do. I have the oldest kids now. Just a five year old.
01:10:13:23 - 01:10:15:07
Maumer Razic
Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I'm.
01:10:15:09 - 01:10:16:17
Ben Brown
I'm the OG.
01:10:16:19 - 01:10:17:12
Andrew Saunders
You're the old.
01:10:17:12 - 01:10:20:13
Ben Brown
Goodness is a is a weird. This doesn't feel.
01:10:20:13 - 01:10:26:02
Andrew Saunders
Right. But I don't think you're the oldest. Like, I think I'm the oldest age wise. But you have the oldest.
01:10:26:02 - 01:10:28:09
Ben Brown
Children out with about to be the youngest kid.
01:10:28:12 - 01:10:30:15
Andrew Saunders
Yeah. With about to be the youngest kid. Yeah.
01:10:30:17 - 01:10:52:02
Ben Brown
But awesome. I think this is a really good discussion. I honestly hope that that everybody who listens to this gets something out of it and realizes that, you know, there's so many different ways to bond with your kids to, to bond with your significant other. And the pathway of fatherhood looks different for everybody. And as long if you're asking yourself the question of, am I a good dad?
01:10:52:02 - 01:11:04:12
Ben Brown
Am I doing it right? You are like 70% of the way there. You're going to screw it up. Things are going to go wrong and we learn, we get better and we grow, and then we learn together. So thank you, everybody.
01:11:04:14 - 01:11:12:14
Andrew Saunders
Come tell us on the dad verb discord channel. Yes. So that we can talk you out of your spiral. And then talk about it on this podcast because that's what we do.
01:11:12:17 - 01:11:22:09
Ben Brown
100%. We will use it as fodder for the podcast. But thank you everybody for joining us for the inaugural Re ignition. I guess maybe those are the words I want to.
01:11:22:10 - 01:11:22:22
Andrew Saunders
Relaunch.
01:11:22:22 - 01:11:35:03
Ben Brown
Reignite and relaunch of the dad podcast with some new faces and new voices. We really look forward to bringing you more fatherhood focused podcast, and we will see you all in the next one.
01:11:35:05 - 01:11:36:10
Andrew Saunders
Peace is.
